Recovery Points

[xvprado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xvprado]

I would suggest going and having a look at the Pics, they are through the beefed up chassis rail now and appear to have been well thought out (An engineer mates words).

Mate, understand what youre saying, but its simple...welded arent rated
I just had a look at my 07 model, wouldnt use them and I would keep a fair distance away from any recovery utilising them

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

The recovery points on the ARB bar are pictured in this link.
They are the vertical and are sandwiched between the chassis and the brackets for the bar. I use them and not the tiedown that is right next to, but horizontal.
But the ties are substantial and would take a serious force to dislodge. And 4WD Monthly mag actually said they are ok to use. (cant remember if in text or on one of their dvd's)

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/2005seach/Prado4X4
JeffS.

[Mike Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mike]

Jeff

What size shackle do you use with the ARB recovery points?

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

Dealer In QLD

Hi There

I am wanting to put some of these recovery points on the 07 Prado however i cant find anyone in QLD (SE in particular) that sells these points.

Any tips or hints guys.

I dont mind from elsewhere - however the postage maybe expensive - due to the weight of the parcel.

[McBAIN Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close McBAIN]

ARB & TJM would be your primary places to look!

Opposite Lock has them as well..

Ebay has some..

do some research though, some of them are pretty costly for a little peice of metal!

[Damien Parker Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damien Parker]

Yeah, last time i was at TJM they had some of the chunky ones there similar to the ATS ones.

[Prado04 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado04]

ARB south side have them on the shelf.

[McBAIN Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close McBAIN]

watch the price though. i've seen it vary from $50 each to $50 for a set depending on where you look.

i beleive there's more detail at the start of this thread..

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

Hi There

I have just been down to TJM and they reckon that the 07 Prado does not really need any recovery points on the front - as he thinks that the front "tie down" points are good enough to tow/snatch from - as they go all the way thru the chasis and are welded on both sides.

What are your thoughts on the New model recovery points on the newer model (D4D) ?

[xvprado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xvprado]

Hi There

I have just been down to TJM and they reckon that the 07 Prado does not really need any recovery points on the front - as he thinks that the front "tie down" points are good enough to tow/snatch from - as they go all the way thru the chasis and are welded on both sides.

What are your thoughts on the New model recovery points on the newer model (D4D) ?

And Mr TJM's proffesional qualifications to allow him to make such statements ?
They are welded, albeit much better than previous, they are still welded, therefore not rated
Are you prepared to risk yours or your colleagues life because a 4wd shop attendant said so ?
Sorry to be a bit over the top on this, but this is a matter of life and limb if they fail, just dot take unnecessary risks

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

yeah for sure - i understand your point

However how do you know that anything else that you put onto the Prado is Rated - I didnt get any paperwork or markings on the outback ideas recovery points to state that they are rated either? :shock:

I mean - lets face it - you are mounting the OI recovery points right beside the Toyota points - mounted thru the same area - the only thing that is different is that the OI are bolted thru the chasis (E-W) and the Toyota points are mounted thru the chasis (N-S).

Its going thru the chasis either way - the only difference is that when you install the OI recovery points, i hear that you may need to drill out the hole a little for the bolts to fit - so this would/could weaken the chasis and point where attached..... :?

What proves things that are rated - do we get paperwork proving such?On the flip side - i was talking to another TJM bloke and he told me that the OI arent rated - and he recommened a simple hook setup?

Go figure ? :?:

Interesting debate - at least we are all after the best setup for the 4x4, but not comprimising on safety....
:!:

[xvprado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xvprado]

Fair points OP, I dont use the OI hooks, so I have no experience with them.
Others of similar construction and installation are stamped as rated
There is Aust standards for this kind of stuff, and I find myself fairly satisfied when using gear that is compliant.

I think the key differences are that the metal hooks are attached with high tensile bolts, so the integrity of the bolts is not necessarily an issue, these bolts then spread the load across the rail vertically, fairly good engineering principle in that, thirdly you would always use them in tandem, equal distribution of the load, so you can equate that to saying, if the hook is substantial enough to avoid deformation or tearing, if the chassis rail is substantial enough to do the same, then each high tensile bolt is supporting 1/4 of the load, at a 90 degreee angle to the load, the strongest potential position

The alternative is to compare a weld carrying the same load as the bolt, the same weld that is not consistent in each vehicle, the weld is placed so the metal carrier is at a level plane to the tension, the weakest potential position, it has not been x-rayed for integrity and may be structurally weak by its very nature. thats the basis of my argument. You just cant test a weld wthout breaking it

Good discussion point all the same, just need to be aware of how many people are at risk if the worst happens and something lets go under load, people have died, I dont say this to be a scare monger, just to be cautious and make sure we set standards similar to anyone else doing high risk stuff like parachutists, mountain climbers, base jumpers etc etc, they like us, are at risk of death with gear failures

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

I am all for safety and being safe.

Funny - i just called toyota (on another issue) but whilst talking to them, i asked them about Rated recovery points....

well......

after about 5mins on hold - the response was ----

There are two tie down points on the front and one on the rear...

i asked about recovery points and they said - well there are tie down points ... etc

so they were not committed on this point....

kinda disappointing

[steveo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close steveo]

OP you are absoutely correct. Not much point using class 8.8 bolt when the bolts can not be done up to the correct torque because it will crush the 1.2mm welded box section.

I also acknowledge that there is some benefit, while very minor of fitting these aftermarket attachement points as they are substantial.

You can see from the drawing below that the box section being used to mount these aftermarket points is itself welded to the main chassis rail. If over stress you will end up pulling the box section from the rail. The use of an equalising strap is a go strategy and will not only ensure that both sides of the rail are pulled reducing the chances of twisting the chassis, but also spead the shock force when snatched.



I am currently in the process of finishing the calculations on a support bracket which will provide a rated attachment. I need to tune the tensile strength of the bracket but still allow the adequite crush rate during frontal collision.

An example, but I suspect not the final design



It will attach to the main chassis rail and extend down to the welded box section. The aftermarket recovery point will mount over the top using Class 10 bolts/

Any mech eng's out there offering to help do the calcs would be appreciated as I am finding difficult to get through them due to a significant project (wife) and work load.

Steve.

[RichardN Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close RichardN]

SteveO
I bought a set of plated from ARB Northern in Vic that I asked them to order from ARB in Perth after seeing a photo on another forum. These are a similar shape to your sketch and bolt to the chassis with a nut inserted in the chassis so the rear bolt can be tightened fully.
I have rated hooks on the plates which cover the hole for a shackle.
You can see one here if I have inserted the photo properly. Sorry it is not clean.