Recovery Points

[steveo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close steveo]

RichardN,

Looks good, what is the rating on the plate? What grade and size bolts did you use?

Steveo

[RichardN Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close RichardN]

Steveo

I have had them for 2 years and don't remember a rating. I can't see anything on them now. They are 10mm plates. Do they need a rating? My insurance company has acknowledged them. I have 10,000 kg rated hooks bolted to them with HT bolts.
There are two M12 and one M10 HT bolts on each. Two bolts use the captive nuts in the radiator frame. The rear bolts use tapped rectangular blocks that came with wires welded on so that they can be inserted into the frame through the 25mm hole in the chassis just behind the plates. The plated are folded to have a step so that they fit the shape of the chassis without any spacers. I saw them on an LCOOL message before going to ARB. I liked that there was a robust attachment on the chassis further back than the radiator frame.
I've been snatched and used one to winch from with a block.

[Jacto Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacto]

Hi Guys

I am going to throw another one in here as I was talking to some engineers and boilermakers today and they all advised that if the welding is done to a specified standard then each 25mm of weld will hold 1 tonne.

Now I haven't measured any of the welds on the "tie down" points but wouldn't it be right to assume that they were welded to a "standard" and therefore have sufficient strength to recover.

Without crawling under the vehicle in the rain, I seem to remember that these points are welded both sides, which should provide over 4 tonne of tensile strength each.

I am no engineer by the way and I don't know if the discussion will go away, particularly when the so called experts all advise differently.

Another 2 cents worth,
I was always under the belief that if a high tensile bolt was put into a high shock load (such as a snatch) then it would have a tendency to shear, whereas a mild steel bolt would tend to deform or bend out of shape before shearing and therefore creating more discussion :?

[steveo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close steveo]

Jacto,

You guessed it in one, even if Toyota had put attachment points on the front of the Prado that have clearly been designed for snatching and other recovery activities this would still be an issue.

The weld strengths you described are about right. One of the things to consider is that the "tie down" point is not attached to the chassis rail it is weld to a 1.2 mm welded box section. So you are liklely to see a tear or rip. The box section itself is appproximately 100mm in length. This acts as a lever and multiples the reactionary force of a snatch to the welded attachment point of the box section.

Malleable materials have poor shear properties and brittle materials have poor tensile strength. You are correct in your observation of the failure mode of malleable and High strength bolts in that the malleable one tend to bend then shear while high strength bolts just shear however the yeild and subsequent shear forces are signigicantly lower for high stength bolts.

Shock loading bolt with shear forces can do even the best bolts in.

If you consider that the shear strength of a fastener is about 60% of the Tension strength you can use a rule of thumb to work out what size bolts you need and what grade.

i.e The Shear of a 12mm G8.8 bolt is Hold the press

In searching for the tensile strength for the shear and yeild calculation I found a good article that will save me a heap of typing.

http://rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp

REgards

Steveo[/url]

[Drew Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drew]

i.e The Shear of a 12mm G8.8 bolt is Hold the press

In searching for the tensile strength for the shear and yeild calculation I found a good article that will save me a heap of typing.

http://rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp

Great article Stevo - well found,

Drew.

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

Factory B/Bar and OB Recovery Points?

Hi There again,

I have the factory b/bar installed on the Prado and i am wanting to install these outback ideas recovery points, however i have a question...

The B/Bar attaches/bolts thru one of the points in which the recovery point also attaches thru. I am worried that the size of the bolt provided willl not be long enough to go thru both the recovery point, bull bar and then into the captive nut. Then also, the rear bolt will then not be long enought either. The recovery point will then be not flush againtst the chasis due to the bull bar install. I void in between the rear hole on the recovery point and the chasis.

If anyone has the factiry bull bar and the recovery point - i think you will know what i am talking about...

Any suggestions around this or what else to do as i am about to head on the beach and needing some recovery points of some type on the front - i dont trust the tie down/recovery points just yet that are already on the chasis - may have to use them only in emeragency....

Thanks guys !!!

HELP NEEDED :?: :?: :?:

[steveo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close steveo]

Orangepeel,

Assume you are referring to:



and the back of the mounting flange



I am currently considering the same issue.

My intention is to incorporate a mount for the factory bullbar in the bracket I am fabricating.

A solution for you is to make a packing piece between the box section and new piece of kit. You will have to replace the bolt with a longer one.

Did you note the bird poo weld holding it all together, ok to hold the radiator but in my view not for snatching on

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

thanks for the reply Stevo

Your underneath is different to mine - I have a 07 GXL and the holes are placed differently as with the tie down point. Mine has the welds all the way thru both sides of the chasis and the tie down point is tilting down. There has been some suggestion that you may be able to snatch from the later model points, however i am wanting the outback idea points to snatch from. Yeh, the holes look the same, however i have two holes (not above each other like yours) these are on a diagional - longer distance between them.

Glad to hear others out thee have the same issue and thoughts.

Cheers

[bunsen Member Find all posts View Profile Close bunsen]

Just to add more fuel to the fire/debate, I just popped in at ARB on the Gold Coast and one of the guys came out and had a look at the factory 'tie-down' points and said they were fine. I mentioned the weld, but he stood his ground. I asked if he had any Outback Ideas products, but he hadn't heard of the company. :?

I had the same issue with my previous 4wd, an older style Pathfinder. The forums all said the tie-down points weren't suitable, but about 4 different 4x4 stores had a good look at them and said they were fine :?

[Chippy Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chippy]

Hiya Orangepeel

These pics Here are of my bus with Outback Ideas recovery points and the factory bar. The bolts are plenty long enough.

Cheers
Chippy

[bunsen Member Find all posts View Profile Close bunsen]

Ok, I'm going to have a crack at installing the OI recovery plates and have a question....

Looking at the picture below, I guess that the plate goes over the mounting bracket for the bullbar (if that's what it is). What fills the gap between the plate and the section that is welded to the bottom of the chassis rail. Looking at the back of nuts, bolts & washers that came with the plates, there are a few split washers (dunno the tech term, but that's what they look like).



I've read the instructions on the LCOOL site, and have gone thru this thread numerous times trying to visualise how I'm going to bolt the plates on, but am still unsure about that gap I mentioned above :?

Off to Bunnings tomorrow to get the right angle drill chuck, and then hopefully get the points in before our trip to Straddie 8)

Oh yeah, and after drilling, I suppose a squirt of some kind of rust inhibitor would be advisable :?:

[Chuck Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck]

I would think the shock load on the points would be more than 4ton?

[damonat Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close damonat]

so i think we are all clear on what the front recovery points are or need to be.
what about the rear of the prado. :?:
i read somewhere that a toyota towbar is not,
but the hayman reese one is.
what is the response to the above 2 towbars, and another thought,
what if you have no towbar? :shock:
what do you use than? is there a recovery point standard on the rear.
(i'm sure TP will let me know quickly if i have missed this elsewhere) ops:

[Kevin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kevin]

On the toyota towbar, it is rated to tow 2.5 tonnes. Given the factor of safety that would have to be engineered into it to give it that rating; ie to continuously pull 2.5 tonne over any surface, I have no problem using it in a recovery situation.

If you don't have a tow bar, there is a rear tiedown point on one side of the chassis I think that could be replaced with a proper recovery point.

my 2c.

[LiveFreeAndRoam Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LiveFreeAndRoam]

At a 4WD sand training course, the instructor mentioned the hitch-pin is sufficient for recovery. Of course, never never use the tow-ball as a recovery point.

However, after reading similar posts from other PP'ers, it seems the pin may bend out of shape after a recovery. The dynamics are easy to understand when one considers all the force being applied to the center of the pin. Especially when snatching.

Anyway, you can purchase a rear recover point, which is a Hayman-Reese sized hitch made from a solid chunk of steel coupled with a big fat shackle. This way the force is more evenly distributed across the pin, with obvious benefits.

Mine is the one on the left, after a fun run around Wooli.



LFaR.