diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[ToeEdge Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ToeEdge]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

The fuel system in the 1KD-FTV is designed in Germany around 50+ cetane low sulphur diesel fuel (IP 380, EU standard). If you have to use an additive, Flash Lube Diesel Conditioner or the Toyota diesel additive, not two stroke oil. Toyota Australia should have made it part of the warranty conditions to use this fuel, 50+ as did a number of other European manufacturers of diesels, like VW, etc., they would have saved themselves a hole lot of trouble. Operating range for the injectors : 5 to 12mm3, replacement -, + 3mm3 which is nothing. If you operate, (3+ micron will do it) using the wrong fuels, additives and fuel filters (spec, 2 micron), over time you will surely damage your injectors and your supply pump which operates at 20,000 psi (5 to 8 times more than most common rail petrol systems). Most common rail diesel engines are of a critical design, what does that mean for the main stream consumer? Well, you must use the right oils, fuel and filters to get some sort of pay back out of your investment. Cetane Index for your information : Caltex : 46, maybe higher, but there are no guarantees, Shell : 49 and BP : 50+. Interesting to note, the Australian standard for Cetane is 46. The Australian Federal Government needs to change the Cetane Index to 50+ to standardize to the EU standard which most of these engines are designed around. Thus protecting the Australian consumer and the secondhand vehicle industry, until then, members beware. gxld4d, its called the Intelligent Tester Tool and the best way to reset your factory settings on your ECU is to disconnect your battery. I found around the 8mm3 setting was the best for anything but 50+. Ultimately anything under 50+ over time will damage the system doesn't matter what settings you use.

Roo, I have been reading your posts with interest as I have an '07 D4D with 110k on it. Mine has a short term rattle when cold (less than 5mins driving) but no engine wobble. I have been using a range of fuels and overall the engine performance is excellent. But I am concerned. I am considering taking your advise to start using BP fuel. Can you tell me is all BP diesel 50+ and do you have any idea what Cetane level Caltex Vortex diesel is, as that has been my most commonly used fuel?

[Pedro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pedro]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Toeedge,
Some time back I wrote to BP and Caltex re the cetane levels and reported this in threadhttp://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3553

The interesting part is

BP confirmed their Cetane rating in Queensland was 51 , and that all diesel from 1/1/09 would need to be at this rating.
He also mentioned their Victorian office had received lots of calls from Prado owners about a "rattle"
Probably relates to this thread

viewtopic.php?t=3107&start=0

A reply from Caltex re Cetane

"Caltex Ultral Low Sulphur Diesel must comply with the Australian Standard for diesel fuel, which has a Cetane Index specification of 46 minimum. However, in most instances, the Cetane Index is usually around 51 - 52 ( but not guaranteed - only that the Cetane Index will never fall below 46.) "

As you are aware I have the rattle and when handing in my service book to local service centre who are chasing an "out of warranty " claim with Toyota, mentioned I had always used BP fuel.

The service attendant said the fuel made no difference it was the faulty injectors.

Still waiting on Toyota's response to claim

[Pedro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pedro]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Still waiting on reply from Toyota re replacement of faulty injectors. At initial cold start report I was told there were 2 noisy injectors. Today this has been changed to only one by the service advisor.

Service advisor said today it was likely , if they agreed to an out of warranty claim, it would be that the would only replace the one faulty injector.

I am sure I read somewhere that all 4 injectors need to be replaced if one or more are faulty.

Does anyone have any info on this.
Also the fact that the injectors in vehicle are the ones now being replaced with an alternative brand (in several posts this thread), any comments on replacement with an old style injector or a mix of old and new if it is to be replaced with the new Denso unit.

[mcfisherclan Member Find all posts View Profile Close mcfisherclan]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

i was told by our local service manager that if one was faulty all 4 needed to be replaced. they all need to be matched i think he said.

[Pedro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pedro]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Thanks will need to get as many of these comments as I can to work out the best approach for my problem

[Pedro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pedro]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

##########,
I purchased my D4D 7/07.
Since 15/9/07 I have used BP exclusively and yet the rattle only happened in the last few months.

From all the comments I have read it is more like faulty injectors originally installed.

[Pedro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pedro]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

##########,
I purchased my D4D 7/07.
Since 15/9/07 I have used BP exclusively and yet the rattle only happened in the last few months.

From all the comments I have read it is more like faulty injectors originally installed.

Have just read "Serious problem in Europe" thread http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic....st=0&sk=t&sd=a

And the pertinent point re my early query about replacement is covered in thread

Toyota Spain undertakes to:

- Replacement of the 4 nozzles, where the values are outside the parameters regardless of the number of faulty injectors. The replacement will be made by the new upgraded injectors.

- It ensures safety stock so that the change is made in the most flexible as possible.

This might come in handy to place before Toyota Australia .

[Pedro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pedro]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Re my earlier post dealer rang today to advise Toyota have agreed to replace one injector "out of warranty".

Dealer is to check whether it is the superceded injector to be used or the new type.

Anecdotal evidence is that original injectors were faulty and as such I reckon they should replace all 4 with the new type.

Have started the ball rolling with RACQ legal and await a call back from them.
As such I would like the assistance of all those who may have taken legal advice in or out of warranty.

I have extended warranty with Swan Insurance and as such would like to know if those who had replacement done under warranty had all 4 replaced when not all 4 created the noise.

Replacement has to be done by 18/5/11 so I need to get a case together rather quickly so any suggestions and actual evidence would be appreciated.

[willg Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close willg]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

my 8/2007 Prado with 98,000 on the clock has been running rough and seems to have got much noisier on start up and also when idling at lights etc, i had it checked and was told it needed to have the injectors replaced since it is 8months out of warranty its going to cost around $2700.00 with new injectors and around $1900 with recondition injectors from AG Diesel Pumps & Injectors Pty Ltd in Sth Clayton Victoria has anyone had any experience with reco injectors or am i better going with new ones ? cheers

[Brissie Jon Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Brissie Jon]

Is there any evidence of the Jan 2008 & onwards revised injectors on the D4D giving problems?

[Pedro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pedro]

Re my earlier post dealer rang today to advise Toyota have agreed to replace one injector "out of warranty".

Dealer is to check whether it is the superceded injector to be used or the new type.

Anecdotal evidence is that original injectors were faulty and as such I reckon they should replace all 4 with the new type.

Have started the ball rolling with RACQ legal and await a call back from them.
As such I would like the assistance of all those who may have taken legal advice in or out of warranty.

I have extended warranty with Swan Insurance and as such would like to know if those who had replacement done under warranty had all 4 replaced when not all 4 created the noise.

Replacement has to be done by 18/5/11 so I need to get a case together rather quickly so any suggestions and actual evidence would be appreciated.

Got in touch with Office of Fair Trading and they suggested I approach the dealership from whom I had purchased vehicle.

Did ths and they then did a cold start, sent report to Toyota and 1 week later Toyota had agreed to 50% of claim for "out of warranty" for parts and nil for labour.
Dealer then contacted Swan and they agreed to pick up the balance, so I will not be out of pocket for replacement.

Thanks to all who have given advice and comment on my problem.

Don't know what the local dealer did which resulted in gaining approval for replacement of only 1 injector (and it was to be an old style one at that) but whatever it was it shows there are dealers and then there are dealers.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

In the parts thread

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_G_200...FEYQ_2201.html

shows three distinct injectors for the D4D. Does anyone know if that these are the parts we have here? I note that the pump according to this site is unchanged which is a bit different to what I have heard. I guess based on my build date I have the latest injectors if the toyodiy info can be believed.

Does anyone have part numbers to compare??????

Michae

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

My 2007 GXL with 96000 on the clock ...

Well - After putting up with the Rattle long enough, I got the local mob to check it after a cold start... The report back was simple: Replace Injectors and reflash ECU.

I was half expecting that - so I asked them to send the details to Toyota Australia and get them to look at it.

Not happy as the local dealership is not really that helpful in getting me out of the problem. Just would be happy taking my money for the new injectors.

Very Disappointing after 96K, this engine requires NEW injectors ... geez - there are Toyotas out there that have 250K on the clock and still going strong ...

Hows everyone getting assistance from Toyota regarding out of warranty claim for this KNOWN problem with the injectors ....

VERY DISAPPOINTED

[Mick70 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mick70]

G'day all,

This dramas with that terible rattle in the D4D range is beyond a joke!. I have a Toyota Prado 07 D4D and it has, just in the last month, developed a rather loud rattle on cold start ups. Ive owned it just under a year (second hand 131,000kms). Its the usual scenario with the noise then disappearing soon after when the donk comes up to temp. Ive have read through the thread on here re Rattle in D4D's but thought I'd put it out there to see if there is anyone with any latest info on this drama. The wagon is due to go in for Warranty work on Monday to diagnose the probs but most of my queries with Toyota have fallen of deaf ears regarding this problem- they all pretty much say they know of no dramas with D4D's.. Cover up much??? Hmmm... Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated!..This is my 1st post thus am new to this great forum. Cheers Michael

[orangepeel Member Find all posts View Profile Close orangepeel]

Well took the car down to two dealers for two different "cold start" tests on the car.

Both service centres said - in a Jun 07 Prado, that I am requiring new injectors. One stated that Injectors 2,3 and 4 are WAY out of limits .....

Looking forward to seeing how the "out of warranty" claim goes over the next few days .....

Fingers Crossed .... Bloody disappointing that after less than 100K that I am requiring new injectors ...

Lets hope the "FIX" or new injectors are not having similar problems ....