diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

I did a bit of a google on the injector replacement process and found this snippet:

Toyota Hilux/Prado 3.0ltr D4D
Part number on injector
Parts needed for installation
PLEASE NOTE: THESE ARE CODED INJECTORS AND THE CALIBRATION CODE MUST BE ENTERED INTO THE ENGINE ECU UPON FITMENT OF THESE INJECTORS.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

When I replace injectors in bulldozers (haven't had the pleasure for a while). I enter the exact serial number, etched on the top of the injector assembly; into the engine ECM. This serial number identifies the injector to the ECM and if the ECM program is up to date, it then know what the tolerance is upon each fuel injector in the engine.

Then the ECM knows to adjust the amount of fuel and the timing of the injection, so that the engine runs evenly and no pre-detionation takes place.. which can result in holes in pistons...

Thats why the engine needs to know the exact injector fitted and how to compensate for differences in the machining process.

Thats pretty amazing technology, diesels sure have come a long way.
Makes my 1kz sook look a bit stoneage :roll:

Mick

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Thanks Matt, the more I am reading on this problem with the D4D the more I am thinking it was a huge mistake to go for the D4D.

Not sure what my options will be now, I am hoping it is not going to cost me thousands to get this fixed as I have read that Toyota have refused to fix this problem under warranty with other people.

From the folks posting on here that are experiencing the same as myself then this is a wide spread problem and probably warrants a class action suite against Toyota for selling a product that was not suitable for Australian conditions regarding availability of the required standard of diesel to operate the D4D.

No warnings were issued about Australian diesel quality when buying the D4D and the Toyota fuel filter system is not capable of stopping the contaminants before the injectors and pump are destroyed. It is the old story of the expensive pump and injectors die in order to save the cheap filter.

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

I wouldn't worry just yet..

There are thousands and thousands of D4D engines in your specification in both the Prado and Hilux, operating in many, many Mines and Construction companies, throughout Australia. I gather, if they start dropping like flies; some rather heavy hitting Australian and International companies may take on the fight.

I remember hearing that the D4D engine was held off being released in Australia, until the sulphur level standards were dropped in Australian Diesel. I googled sulphur in diesel engines and apparently, the sulphur in the fuel acts as a lubricant in the diesel fuel.

Fuel pumps and fuel injectors use diesel to both cool and lubricate the moving parts within them. I wonder if the reduction in sulphur has resulted in accelerated wear in the D4D fuel system and as you have found, injector failure...

My 4 cents,

Well I can only hope you are right Matt, but I have a gut feeling that this is not going to turn out well for the finances. At least now the cars don't have to be sent back to Melbourne as they did last year to fix this problem. Toyota stung the poor guy for a cool 10 grand for the repair.

This thread makes for interesting reading for D4D owners:

http://www.exploroz.com.au/Forum/Top...%2522%26pn%3D1

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Mav,

If the clowns hit you for the cash, I would be fixing it... then trading it on a Petrol, straight up.

Refit ya old suspension and piss it off. It will fit a Petrol 8) 8)

Cheers,

Yeah I hear you Matt. If it comes down to it I think I will be forced into taking some kind of legal action.

There is no way I could pin point which fuel company I purchased fuel from just before this started to happen as that was back in January or February and why is it that it only happens when the engine is cold and not all the time if the injectors are stuffed?

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

Mav - that really sux. I thought warranty would have had that covered - as by law, its up to the manufacturer to prove the fault was NOT related to themselves. I see another small claims court case coming on...

That said, how many are there of you? if you cannot drive to Morgan this Sat is there any other SA PP member able to pick you up? We could squeeze 3 of you in our truck - and our little ones could grace the 3rd row seats (guess that's what they are for, not just extra weight for rear traction). You may have to nurse an Evakool 55L tho....

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Hi Mav,
Sorry to hear about your stuffed injectors mate, the description "framitzed" I have never heard, have the Toyota guys given you a clear description of the Injector defects or have they used the standard non technical "stuffed" response.

It is definitely a warranty defect no doubt about it.

I keep the last fill fuel receipts just in case , it should not be your responsibility, you should be able to go to any service station in Australia and fill up regardless.

Toyota had better start issuing some Technical/ Service memorandums/ directives regarding fuel quality do,s and dont's or even recalls if necessary, as they are going to get burnt by some of the big fleet owners in our country.

And as for distillate fuel quality, well that's a question for our Federal Government to put to the fuel companies and get it sorted.

I will be watching the outcome closely and listen for any death rattles in my truck. :x :x :x

It seems that Spanish owners are also having D4D injector issues! read all about it; http://www.toyotadiesel.com/forums/arch ... -1028.html

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

I will be watching the outcome closley and listen for any death rattles in my truck. :x :x :x

I have a new rattle......1200W JBL.

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Now that would would be a rattle Aye!

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

Im sure if i were to get the D4D rattle, Toyo would probably blame "my accessories" requiring the injectors to work overtime generating 1.21 jigawatts of electricity to power her!



If only i had a flux capacitor....

:idea: :idea:

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Mav, I know you are probably no clearer on this at the moment but have you been told by Toyota that they will not honour the warranty for repairs?

From reading the various posts here and the odd bit of information from the web it seems that the symptoms start with the rattle or rough idle when the engine is cold. This makes sense. If the damage is worn injectors/excessive clearance then the atomisation of the diesel will be poorer and with a cold engine that will translate to rough idle/running. Once the engine is warmed up it can better cope with the poorer atomisation of the fuel. The oily smear observed by some around the exhaust also shows incomplete combustion. Power should be reduced though in all liklihood hard to measure and the injectors would continue to degrade if the wear continues until the engine begins to misfire because the diesel is not being burnt properly. Increased fuel consumption as well. Some other posts mention that Toyota give the injectors a rating and within limits the injector is still ok but the fact is that the injectors are damaged/worn just not bad enough to replace.

That the damage can be incurred long before the symptoms develop make it hard to pin point a partcular fuel load though if you use one brand you at least have a chance to single out the responsible party. Maybe everyone should keep recipts for 6 months though unless you keep samples again hard to prove unless you stick with one brand.

I agree 100% with clifton that we should be able to drive to any service station anywhere and get fuel without worrying about potential damage. Part of that responsibilty is with Toyota to ensure that the filtration is fit for purpose and the other with the fuel suppliers to ensure that the fuel they sell meets all the minimum standards for cleanliness and quality. It is not the owners fault if either of these two parties fall down in their job.

I intend writing to my dealer and Toyota outlining what I have learned and asking what Toyota's official position is. At my last service I asked what is Toyota's stance on additional fuel filters and was told that it is ok. Time to investigate further but the problem is we don't know the root cause. Is it solvents in the fuel, particles in the fuel, water? Hard to filter out the problem if you cannot identify it.

Good luck with the warranty claim and for anyone whose D4D is showing symptoms please keep updating this forum, who knows together we may be able to get Toyota to accept their role in this problem.

Michael

[masso Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close masso]

Just received the call from Toyota where i left my car last night for them to hear the noise this morning. They said one of the injectors is basically squirting NO fuel and the ohers are trying to compensate. They say its a relatively major job and will take until tomorrow afternoon to fix. Apparently the diagnostics take ages and they need to "follow Toyota processes"in relation to the correction/replacement of the injector. They said they will keep me updated throught the course of the day and tomorrow. As soon as I get more info... will post. And they did say the magic words...""under warranty".. so that is at least something!

Rick

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

From reading the various posts here and the odd bit of information from the web it seems that the symptoms start with the rattle or rough idle when the engine is cold.

:shock:

I also have noticed - and i think it goes back to day 1 of having the car - that when cold - or after a few mins of running and then stopping, when left in "drive" - it can idle very roughly. Putting it in "N" - does tend to settle things down somewhat. Not sure if this is "rough idling" - or a higher idle speed fighting my torque converter in the tranny whilst the motor is still warming up....or dare i say it....early days for the dreaded rattle....

:?: :?: :?:

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

mjforder I haven't heard the deadly rattle (and I hope I never will) but it seems from the reports it is bad enough for people to think the engine is about to fly off the mounts. And I would guess that the noise is pretty much unaffected whether the engine is running against the torque convertor or not whereas your engine is just loading a little through windage in the gearbox. Mav or others any coment on this? I did notice that our D4D (wife's daily driver) had the idle up button accidentally pushed in and it is now cold enough in Brisbane for the button to have an effect so check that too.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Mav that is bad news. I hope it can be sorted out quickly. Any news on why or what can be done to prevent recurrence?

Toyota did not say what could be done to prevent it and I suspect that with the current diesel sold here in Australia that it will continue to occur which is a pretty dismal outlook for us D4D owners. I have not used any additives so this damage has occured by using stardard diesel.

Given the D4D is used in the Prado, Hilux & Hiace, if there is a problem it's going to be a BIG problem for Toyota with a lot of unhappy customers. Let's hope it's not a sign of the Nissan 3L issues.