BioDiesel in D4D Prado

[ninart Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ninart]

Is there anyone has experience about filling up TD Prado with BioDiesel Fuel?
My Toyota Service Dealer in Thailand gave me an unconfirmed information what would be affected to the engine if I fuel my Prado with that fuel. Here in my country, as far as i know, there are only 2 grades of diesel fuel. One is B5 and the other one is B10 BioDiesel on the market today.
If some of PP webboard members have any ideas or something special, please... that gonna be very nice and sweetness>>> (-:

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

Read the threads below

Injector issue

D4D contaminated fuel

I think you'll find it might be a good idea to use the best quality fuel you can get your hands on.

Bio fuels are much more prone to water contamination (water = diesel bug/algae)


Mick

[droggy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close droggy]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

could not agree more Mick,I am a diesel mechanic and look after a fleet of earthmoving machinery and utes. We have had trouble with blocked fuel filters& hard starting when using biodiesel.I would never think about using anything but the best possible fuel in a D4D

[ninart Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ninart]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

Thank you all...

[Lindsay & Linda Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lindsay & Linda]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

One of the Tankers I used to work on transported various grades of diesel around, there was always significantly more amounts of sludge/gunk (technical term) left in the bottom of the tanks that had bio-fuel in them. I have no idea how this fuel is treated after it left the ship, but can only assume some of the gunk will end up in your fuel tank.

[05oiler Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 05oiler]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

I saw an advertisement in yesterdays Sydney Morning Herald that said that as of the 1st March 2009, Diesel fuel can contain 5% BioDiesel without any labelling requirement. It does refer to "Following extensive stakeholder consultation". A factsheet or information is available at http://www.environment.gov.au/atmospher ... index.html

Regards

Garry

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

A local Servo up here is selling B25, some people have used it and are claiming miracles (more power, better fuel economy, smooth idling etc), so i hope they come up with was around these issues as I think biofuels will become more of the normal rather than the exception with the way the world is headed atm.

[oldsalt Member Find all posts View Profile Close oldsalt]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

A local Servo up here is selling B25, some people have used it and are claiming miracles (more power, better fuel economy, smooth idling etc), so i hope they come up with was around these issues as I think biofuels will become more of the normal rather than the exception with the way the world is headed atm.

I can't see your location, where is "up here"? :?: :?: :?:

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

central QLD

[Satch Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Satch]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

Somewhere around here, in my random access floor based filing system, I have a copy of a paper on diesel degradation, biodiesel, the need to keep fuel filtering/condition systems running 24/7 on bulk stores for the likes of standby generators and why this matters in the context of road (or off road) vehicles.

It goes something like this:

1. Modern refinaries produce diesel by a process that is more efficient than older methods but tends to produce a less stable soup of hydrocarbons than in days of old (like 10-20 years ago)

2. The "new" diesel tends to break down quicker and produce Asphaltines, in the form of the black crud you see in the bottom of tanks and, most importantly, the black goo in a fuel filter. So you can put the cleanest diesel in the world into a fuel system but still get the black goo in the filter. How long that takes and how much Asphaltine will precipitate out varies quite a bit.

3. To make life even better, modern high pressure diesel injection systems produce conditions which accelerate the precipitation of both Asphaltine and waxes out of the fuel. As most of the fuel gets returned to the tank and so recirculates through the pump many times, the problem has getting worse as higher injection pressure systems have developed.

4. The aspaltines and waxes combine to produce a grey-brown sludge that many people mistake for a bacterial contamination problem. (You can get that as well of course!)

5. Car makers across the world have been slow to recognise this problem.

6. Adding biodiesel to conventional diesel somehow makes the degradtion problem worse. And surprise surprise, nobody wants to talk about it because that would be heresy. (Remember children and say after me: Biodiesel and all things "Green" are always GOOD. People who say otherwise are BAD.)

Suggestions to reduce the problem were:

Keep running on fresh fuel, i.e do not brim the tank if it is going to take you a month to get through it. This is very important in places with high average temperatures

Change fuel filters more regularly and consider fitting a two stage filter system

If you bung "injector cleaner" type additives in the tank only infrequently, change filter 500Km or 7 days after doing so. It may well have loosened crud in the tank & pipework which is now lodged in the fuel filter

Tank strainers will need replacing at some point. Question of when, not if.

(Having read this I promptly went and changed my fuel filter which was about 18 months 12,000km old and cut it open. It was like a tar pit inside :shock: )

[Strahan Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Strahan]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

Did a course on common rail diesels the other night. The upshot of it was that biodiesel should not be used in any common rail diesel due to its higher level of sulphur ash and a few other bits and pieces. The tolerances involved in CRD require that you run the best fuel possible at all times.'

Reading the posts above it seems that we all agree on that point!

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

2. The "new" diesel tends to break down quicker and produce Asphaltines, in the form of the black crud you see in the bottom of tanks and, most importantly, the black goo in a fuel filter. So you can put the cleanest diesel in the world into a fuel system but still get the black goo in the filter. How long that takes and how much Asphaltine will precipitate out varies quite a bit.

B100 Does not produce these Asphaltenes like Petrol Diesel does so moving away from petrol diesel would solve this issue

(Having read this I promptly went and changed my fuel filter which was about 18 months 12,000km old and cut it open. It was like a tar pit inside :shock: )

If you had run B100 since the engine was new you would not have had this problem .... its just food for thought.

Did a course on common rail diesels the other night. The upshot of it was that biodiesel should not be used in any common rail diesel due to its higher level of sulphur ash and a few other bits and pieces. The tolerances involved in CRD require that you run the best fuel possible at all times.'

Reading the posts above it seems that we all agree on that point!

Depending on what kind of biodiesel your refering to, but biodiesel made from plant oils has the lowest sulphar content of any diesel so i fail to see how its bad for your due to the high levels of "sulphur ash" ...... Biodiesel made from animal fats has slightly more but still less than normal petrol based diesel. Seeing a CRD cycles the fuel through the tank a lot more than than a conventional diesel you would have a less chance of the biodiesel sludge in your tank due to the fuel not being allow to settle for any extensive period. Unless you car was a show pony and driven one sunday a month i can;t see how these issues with biodiesel would affect common rail engines any more than a mech diesel engine - infact less imo as the seals would be more resistant to properties of biodiesel.

The major problems with biodiesel i think are in the transition to it from petroleum diesel. Biodiesel has excellent solvent properties so any deposits in the filters and in the fuel delivery systems may be dissolved by biodiesel and result in need for replacement of the filters and parts. As petroleum diesel forms deposits in the fuel systems, and because biodiesel can loosen those deposits, they can move and clog fuel lines, filters and injectors. However if a CRD engine was to run on B100 from the get go this would not be an issue. The other major problem with Biodiesel is its not fond of lower operating temperatures. Its fine for us here in the tropics but some southern states may have issues at time. It is still a relatively new fuel (even though the first diesel engine ran on it :x ) so in time i'm sure manufacturers (of both vehicles and fuels) will look less at their back pockets and more towards the future and most issues will be resolved.

It could be worse we could have no oil and be forced to walk if biodiesel didn't exist.

[Golly Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Golly]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

interesting....

ookami and satch, can you both please amend your profile to show your location in the forums. We like to know how far PP reaches over the world :mrgreen:

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

Just for your information, here is Toyota's official position:

Toyota and its Fuel Injection Equipment suppliers encourage the future development of fuels based on renewable energy sources.

However, with regards to biodiesel fuels, there are no mandated Standards as currently apply to mainstream fuels.

Toyota will endorse biodiesel fuel blends using FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters that comply with either EN14214 or ASTM D6751 standards) of up to 5% volume concentration when mixed with conventional diesel fuel. The final product B5 (5% Biodiesel blend) at the pump must conform to the national Diesel Fuel Standard which is based on EN590.

In the absence of biodiesel fuel standards and due to the many variations of biodiesel fuel blends under production in our market, such as B20 & B30 (biodiesel blend 20% & 30%) Toyota is not in a position to evaluate the long term effect that these varied biodiesel fuel blends will have on engine overall performance, fuel injection equipment durability, fuel economy and exhaust emission compliance.

Accordingly, Toyota cannot recommend concentration of biodiesel fuel blends greater than 5% volume as mentioned above.

This statement is provided to inform Toyota owners of Toyota's position with regard to the use of biodiesel fuels in its products and also serves to confirm that Toyota New Vehicle Warranty will not apply to any failures that are attributable to the use of such fuels.

Mick

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

interesting....

ookami and satch, can you both please amend your profile to show your location in the forums. We like to know how far PP reaches over the world :mrgreen:

I thought i did that 2 days ago - turns out there's two places you can put ur location