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  • #16
    Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

    Biodiesel mixes are not evil but bring with them a number of potential problems that do not exist with traditional fuels. Yes it can strip out the existing crud in the system and that might be a pain but one of the joys it can bring is fatty acid filter plugging especially in colder climates.

    That crops up because dissolved water (i.e an emulsion) tends to be more prevalent in biodeisel than conventional fuels and the presence of such water can cause reversion of the biodiesel to fatty acid, the increased pressure and fuel recycle temperatures in new high pressure injection systems accelerating the process.

    A lot depends on the feedstock the biodiesel is made from. If it is high in saturated fats the resultant biodiesel is more prone to clouding and gelling at low temperatures which is not much fun if you are somewhere cold-ish in winter but simply not an issue elsewhere. Use feedstocks high in unsaturated fats and the biodiesel has a shorter storage life and is more prone to temperature/pressure degradation!

    None of that might matter much if you only use a 5% biodiesel mix but evidence is emerging that higher biodiesel concentrations can have a complex chemical interaction with conventional diesel over time. That is not yet properly understood and if you do not have it hanging around in the tank for ages it most likely is not an issue

    Interestingly diesel vehicles will increasingly tend have two stage filtration systems with new filter media to help remove the very finely divided water in oil emulsions that biodiesels tend to have because that is not good for high pressure pump & injector systems. Existing single stage filters with water separation features simply cannot deal with it.

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    • #17
      Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

      I would have to aggree that bioD is not as evil as its made out to be. I wonder how much of its bad press is due to Australian car makers saving dollars. We have a Peugeot CRD that has now been running perfectly on B20 for over a year now, and in fact the dealer recommended it. If you look at the European models that have been running CRD for a few years now, they all run fine on bioD blends. Perhaps they have just bitten the bullet and put in better filters, as governments push to become fossil fuel independent. Perhaps they have better quality fuels. Either way it looks like we'll be stuck in the dark ages due to ruling bodies not acting and car manufacturers sticking with the cheaper technologies.

      Cheers,
      Ray.
      2008 Silver Ash D4D, Black Widow Draw System, Diff & Transmission Breathers, Dobinsons Suspension 35mm lift, Dual Battery, Radiator Bash Plate, Safair Snorkel, Yokohama GEO ATS

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

        Local politician Graeme Campbell is known to scavenge at Maccas and put's their second-hand cooking oil into his 4WD. Another local, also refines used cooking oil from several restaurants and runs it in his BIG LIFTED F250. Reckons he get's good mileage on the highway but the stuff makes the car thirsty around town. A local cement/concrete producer have spent a couple of million feining and developing bio fuel systems into their trucks and are now saving around $30,000 per annum in their fuel bill but they are using a diesel/bio mix.
        Dave
        Views expressed are mine alone and are not intended to compromise the integrity of my employer nor offend those who may read such views.
        Bugger Bali, get out and see Australia before we sell it all to China.

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        • #19
          Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

          Having a Double Degree in Applied Chemistry and Chemical Engineering (Hons) and Masters in Petroleum Engineering - yes more degrees that a thermometer.

          My professional 2 cents

          The diesel that comes from the ground has a lot of fine debris from clays and fine particulate sand. And deposits everywhere, the particulate free biodiesel tends to flush this out and block filters - change filters til clean should work for biodiesel.

          The water in the biodiesel is from the small water molecules in the biodiesel after reaction with caustic (KOH or NaOH) with methanol (CH3OH). Mono and di-glycerides left over from an incomplete reaction can cause emulsions with water. Need to put a bit more caustic and methanol to remove. But KOH and NaOH are corrosive, if not flushed by water washes, then it could corrode your engine. Also if they don't dehydrate the biodiesel with CaSO4 then water can remain.

          Backyard biodiesel needs to always be QC'd by caustic (using litmus paper), density (measure) and water content (you can add dry CaSO4 to dehydrate). This adds to the price of backyard biodiesel.

          The biodiesel is not distilled but the diesel is and is some what purified between 200 and 350 deg C - no water issues with diesel. If the quality control of the two are good in terms of water and the cetane number (quality can be approximated by a density of 770g/L), then there should be no issues.
          prado_chia
          2003 Grande-2nd hand, Silver, Diesel, Safari Snorkel, Parkside Towbar, Rola low profile x-bars, Tojo Roo Bar, ARB Air-Comp.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

            Originally posted by prado_chia
            Having a Double Degree in Applied Chemistry and Chemical Engineering (Hons) and Masters in Petroleum Engineering - yes more degrees that a thermometer.

            My professional 2 cents

            The diesel that comes from the ground has a lot of fine debris from clays and fine particulate sand. And deposits everywhere, the particulate free biodiesel tends to flush this out and block filters - change filters til clean should work for biodiesel.

            The water in the biodiesel is from the small water molecules in the biodiesel after reaction with caustic (KOH or NaOH) with methanol (CH3OH). Mono and di-glycerides left over from an incomplete reaction can cause emulsions with water. Need to put a bit more caustic and methanol to remove. But KOH and NaOH are corrosive, if not flushed by water washes, then it could corrode your engine. Also if they don't dehydrate the biodiesel with CaSO4 then water can remain.

            Backyard biodiesel needs to always be QC'd by caustic (using litmus paper), density (measure) and water content (you can add dry CaSO4 to dehydrate). This adds to the price of backyard biodiesel.

            The biodiesel is not distilled but the diesel is and is some what purified between 200 and 350 deg C - no water issues with diesel. If the quality control of the two are good in terms of water and the cetane number (quality can be approximated by a density of 770g/L), then there should be no issues.
            You first and let us know how you go with your D4D
            [url=http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=12264]My Prado[/url]

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

              Originally posted by prado_chia
              Having a Double Degree in Applied Chemistry and Chemical Engineering (Hons) and Masters in Petroleum Engineering - yes more degrees that a thermometer.

              My professional 2 cents

              The diesel that comes from the ground has a lot of fine debris from clays and fine particulate sand. And deposits everywhere, the particulate free biodiesel tends to flush this out and block filters - change filters til clean should work for biodiesel.

              The water in the biodiesel is from the small water molecules in the biodiesel after reaction with caustic (KOH or NaOH) with methanol (CH3OH). Mono and di-glycerides left over from an incomplete reaction can cause emulsions with water. Need to put a bit more caustic and methanol to remove. But KOH and NaOH are corrosive, if not flushed by water washes, then it could corrode your engine. Also if they don't dehydrate the biodiesel with CaSO4 then water can remain.

              Backyard biodiesel needs to always be QC'd by caustic (using litmus paper), density (measure) and water content (you can add dry CaSO4 to dehydrate). This adds to the price of backyard biodiesel.

              The biodiesel is not distilled but the diesel is and is some what purified between 200 and 350 deg C - no water issues with diesel. If the quality control of the two are good in terms of water and the cetane number (quality can be approximated by a density of 770g/L), then there should be no issues.
              You lost me at Chemistry :mrgreen:
              [b]Silver 2008 D4D Auto GXL[/b]
              [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6032]My build up[/url]

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

                Backyard biodiesel needs more care...

                Petroleum diesel keeps me in a job...

                So I would HIGHLY recommend petroleum diesel... of course I am biased!
                prado_chia
                2003 Grande-2nd hand, Silver, Diesel, Safari Snorkel, Parkside Towbar, Rola low profile x-bars, Tojo Roo Bar, ARB Air-Comp.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

                  Originally posted by prado_chia
                  Backyard biodiesel needs more care...

                  Petroleum diesel keeps me in a job...

                  So I would HIGHLY recommend petroleum diesel... of course I am biased!
                  I like your chain of thought and support it.

                  The idea of driving my car on somebody's fish and chip residual cooking fat some how just doesn't seem right to me.
                  Dave
                  Views expressed are mine alone and are not intended to compromise the integrity of my employer nor offend those who may read such views.
                  Bugger Bali, get out and see Australia before we sell it all to China.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: BioDiesel in D4D Prado

                    Originally posted by Bushbasher
                    Originally posted by prado_chia
                    Backyard biodiesel needs more care...

                    Petroleum diesel keeps me in a job...

                    So I would HIGHLY recommend petroleum diesel... of course I am biased!
                    I like your chain of thought and support it.

                    The idea of driving my car on somebody's fish and chip residual cooking fat some how just doesn't seem right to me.
                    :lol: Well put
                    2008 GXL Black D4D, 6sp Man. 265/70R17 M/T ATZ4RIB's. MTZ's for play. Kings/EFS 50mm lift. Safari Snorkel. Beaudesert Exhaust, K+N Air Filter. ARB Deluxe bar. GME TX3540. Tekonsha Prodigy . Firestone Airbags. Narva 225's. HID Headlights. Kaymar Spare wheel adaptor.Aero bars. ARB awning. 2010 Jayco OB Swan.

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                    • #25
                      Had one compartment of b5 on board for albury today . Dont know what caltex and bp are doing as it was for shell but will be dropping off b5 all over Melbourne now . We have bp trucks coming into shell havn't asked if there getting b5 on board .

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