Low range reversing down steep declines

[vxcruiser08 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vxcruiser08]

Hi Guys,

Recently did a trip along the Turon river (NSW) and I tackled a few side tracks to give the prado a good run. One of them was a really long and steep but open hill climb. I kept losing traction around 3/4's of the way up. So this meant only one thing, reverse back down. I nearly poo'd myself when I discovered how fast the Prado rolls down a hill in low range reverse.

I assume this is normal, but thought I'd ask the question... Am I doing something wrong? Is there any advice/tips/tricks? It was the perfect hill to play around with settings on, so I tried hill descent but this seemed like a waste of time. This really has scared me off tackling the harder stuff now, knowing if i have to reverse down I have to try and slow down over 2 tonnes of metal without losing traction or going side ways.

Thanks!
Matt

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

You don't say whether you have an auto or a manual, I am assuming you have an auto given your description.

Are you doing something wrong? Probably, have you ever done a 4wd course and been taught how to do a controlled reverse decent?

My advice would be to find a club or an organisation that runs 4wd courses and book in for one.

Cheers Andrew

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Yep, do a course learn left foot braking in a controlled environment. But yeah reversing in an auto is a butt clencher if done wrong.

[vxcruiser08 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vxcruiser08]

Thanks for the replies. It is an auto.
I have a good idea on braking but there is always room for improvement. IMO there is only so much brakes can do on an extremely steep and slippery decent. I guess I am making a direct comparison with 2 x manual hilux's where the situation is much more controlled. It was a breeze reversing in my old hiluxes (2010 and 2004 models).

[stevensr34 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close stevensr34]

Well there's only two things to slow you down when reversing (or going forwards) down a hill...

1. Engine
2. Brakes

and both of these are totally dependent on the grip available between the tyres and the dirt.

The only real difference between descents in an Auto vs Manual is that the engine will "run away" a bit more than a manual will. Thus you need to use the brakes a little in an auto.
(this is assuming there is no hill descent control system, etc).

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

The biggest issue with downhill reversing is the weight being distributed to the rear, which when coupled with braking, causes the front wheels lock up and a loss of steering effectiveness. The other issue is the ease at which a 4wd can roll over in this situation. I always use the handbrake and concentrate on steering, then add a light amount of intermittent foot braking depending on the surface grip. Steering is priority.

If the track is highly slippery than even little amounts of foot brake will cause a total loss of steering control - assuming there is any control at all - in fact, if the vehicle is going off track sometimes a brief acceleration with appropriate steering can correct the cars position. Of course, a safer and more controlled approach would be to winch down.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Once again I would suggest a course, there is more to it than just putting your foot on the brake. I could explain it and go through it but its no substitute for actually being with a person whilst you are training them.

The difference in technique between and auto and a manual is considerable, so knowing what to do in a manual really doesn't translate.

If you use the correct technique a large amount of braking force can be used without fear of lockup. If you know how to do it; its easy to understand, if you have never been taught then its harder to explain.

Cheers Andrew

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

sometimes brakes don't work either. so get a manual

the only thing I know that slows down a 4x4 when its serious is a diesel manual, if you can do it in an auto its not slippery enough
tyre pressure is still everything.
but then I suppose the traction control on these new beasts might do a pretty good job, so ive been told, it would want to be pretty gentle programming.

[bundyk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bundyk]

At the risk of going way off topic, imagine being in the same situation in a new auto Amarok. It has 8 forward gears so "there is no need for a low range transfer case." I beg to differ VW and various journos.

I'll also say book in and do a course. Not only will you learn proper techniques, but you'll be able to better see what your truck is capable of. Plus they are a load of fun. (Getting back on topic)

[barajak Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close barajak]

Hi Guys,

Recently did a trip along the Turon river (NSW) and I tackled a few side tracks to give the prado a good run. One of them was a really long and steep but open hill climb. I kept losing traction around 3/4's of the way up. So this meant only one thing, reverse back down. I nearly poo'd myself when I discovered how fast the Prado rolls down a hill in low range reverse.

I assume this is normal, but thought I'd ask the question... Am I doing something wrong? Is there any advice/tips/tricks? It was the perfect hill to play around with settings on, so I tried hill descent but this seemed like a waste of time. This really has scared me off tackling the harder stuff now, knowing if i have to reverse down I have to try and slow down over 2 tonnes of metal without losing traction or going side ways.

Thanks!
Matt

Make sure you have the center diff lock engaged, if your tyres are over-inflated for the situation, lower the pressures, rip on some hand brake, select reverse and give it a go. Be very gentle with the brakes so as not to lock the fronts, if you need more brakes but the fronts are starting to slide, grab more hand-brake. Do not let speed build up as slowing may be impossible, instead keep to a walking pace.

[Dafics Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dafics]

Agree with many others...... Do a course.
Good technique and a little experience reduces the clenching .

[barajak Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close barajak]

A 4wd course is always going to help, there are lots of techniques you can employ to keep moving forward. I answered a request for help now and not "is it a good idea do do a course)

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Your down hill assist also works in reverse !! but only in low range. Did you have it activated or you didn't bother ?? I have used this in a 120 grande and found it worked great even though a little brake was still required but certainly held it well....Cheers Steve OK just reread your post and you said you did use the down hill assist, not sure why it wouldn't have been working for you....

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeYmDOzoibk this is what can happen so easily if you go about it the wrong way. Thankfully no one was hurt in the video but the vehicle was written off....Cheers Steve

[kav Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close kav]

sometimes brakes don't work either. so get a manual

the only thing I know that slows down a 4x4 when its serious is a diesel manual, if you can do it in an auto its not slippery enough
tyre pressure is still everything.
but then I suppose the traction control on these new beasts might do a pretty good job, so ive been told, it would want to be pretty gentle programming.

Sorry #### , but the diesel manual vs auto argument is done and dusted , even down hill as far as I can see , you should buy a grande . As others have said , maybe some training and technique tweaking is needed . As I have said before , do not bother with the downhill assist button it's basically useless , unless you have absolutely no idea how to use a brake pedal . These are just my opinions and no brake pads were harmed during the writing of this post . I'd put one of them smiley things in here now but I'm too stupid to work it out , cheers