Project lightfoot: Trying to find part weight information

[My-VX-is-a-Porker Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close My-VX-is-a-Porker]

Hey everyone... believe me when I say I've been researching this stuff and haven't really been able to find any comprehensive answers so I thought I'd kick off a thread explaining my situation and what I'm going to do about it, then try to pick all your collective brains about it.

My issue is my 2015 VX Prado came out of the factory with a 500kg payload with 40l or so fuel in it. So by the time its previous owner fitted a few accessories (lights, ARB bar, second battery etc) and I topped off the fuel... well... there's very little payload left, basically, and not a hope in hell of legally towing my (ball weight of about 180kgs) with full fuel and my family in it.

I've looked into GVM upgrade options and there's only one available to me in NSW: Lovells. An installer I trust has urged me not to do it. Unless you're carrying a heavy static load in the back, the rear of the car will be pointing at the moon during regular driving, and the ride is harsh. Plus, I already have a very nice outback armour adjustable setup in my Prado.

So I'm kicking off what I'm calling "project lightfoot".

I should be able to cut enough weight from the car to meet my needs by doing some fairly simple things. This will also cost me less than a GVM upgrade and won't force me to ditch the suspension setup I have now, which I absolutely love.

... but the weights of various parts I plan to remove are hard to come by. So, I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone actually knows how much various bits and pieces weigh.

Anyway before I ask the questions, here's my plan:

* Replace steel ARB bar with alloy bar (save 25kg) or revert to factory bumper (save 71kg)
* Remove second battery (Have fridge in trailer anyway, save 28kg)
* Remove fridge from rear (save 19kg)
* Remove hard shell rear spare tyre cover and replace with vinyl (save 8kg)
* Install non-electric cloth seats in front, either Recaro or fabric seats from GX model (will save ????kg, could be up to 40kg saving here!!)
* Remove some stuff from drawers (Won't need compressor in vehicle, trailer has one, save 15kg)
* Remove OE side steps (save ???kg, maybe 12kg?)
* Switch from 18 inch VX wheels to 17 inch wheels from GXL (Save ????kg, let's guess 10kg)

It all adds up -- that'll save me about 157-203kg, depending on what I do with the front bar.

So I guess my questions for the wonderful people here are:

* How much does a standard 18 inch VX wheel from a 2015 model weigh?
* How much does a standard GXL 17 inch wheel weigh?
* How much do the electric leather front seats in a Prado weigh?
* How much do the cloth seats from a GX Prado weigh? (I use neoprene covers on my seats anyway so not too fussed about switching to cloth)
* How much do the factory side steps weigh each?

Does anyone know where I can track down precise weights for these various parts? Google has failed me :/

And does anyone else have some other weight saving tips for me?

[Daniel150 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Daniel150]

Hi mate.
Just to question the obvious, but have you been over a weighbridge?
My van has a 250kg + ball weight and my car has a fair few more mods than yours and comes in at 3200 fully loaded with a family of 6 and gear on the racks. Yes I have a gvm upgrade of 3250kg.
I think you’ll find the Prado has closer to a 700kg payload. It’s actually the best for payload out of all the suvs, including the 200 series. The other great thing is gcm does not lower the gvm like it does on most other manufacturers vehicles.
Kerb weight allows for about 700kg, minus the fuel, should give you 580kg to play with with full tanks.
I might pay to check your weights, you may be better off than you think!
Cheers

[Daniel150 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Daniel150]

I think the biggest saving is the bull bar and the second battery.
The rest are so small I wouldn’t worry about it.
I think you’ll find that a 17 inch rim and tyre will weight pretty much the same as a 18inch rim and tyre as the extra rubber will cancel out the aluminium of the rim.
I don’t have a second battery as I have lithiums in the van and so have no use for it.
I have a winch, cage rack, muddies and a few other goodies which add a lot of weight as well. With most 4wds, you can either heavily modify or tow. If you want to do both, you’ll need a gvm upgrade.

[My-VX-is-a-Porker Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close My-VX-is-a-Porker]

Hi mate.
Just to question the obvious, but have you been over a weighbridge?
My van has a 250kg + ball weight and my car has a fair few more mods than yours and comes in at 3200 fully loaded with a family of 6 and gear on the racks. Yes I have a gvm upgrade of 3250kg.
I think you’ll find the Prado has closer to a 700kg payload. It’s actually the best for payload out of all the suvs, including the 200 series. The other great thing is gcm does not lower the gvm like it does on most other manufacturers vehicles.
Kerb weight allows for about 700kg, minus the fuel, should give you 580kg to play with with full tanks.
I might pay to check your weights, you may be better off than you think!
Cheers

Yep I've been over a weighbridge, that's why I know there's an issue. The 2015 VX with the 2.8l engine has a 2400Kg kerb weight and a max GVM of 2900kgs. If I could get a GVM upgrade to 3250kg I would, but unfortunately the current situation (as best I can tell) in NSW is I can only get a 600kg upgrade via the Lovells kit.

The KDSS and stuff like electric seats add a lot of weight to the vehicle over models like GX etc... the thing is, I love the KDSS. It just completely transforms the car's handling on road. When I've driven non KDSS models in the past I felt like they sort of "flopped around", if that makes sense.

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

Do you need the 3rd row of seats when you are towing? Save 70kg. Do you need the 2nd row for passengers? Save another 70 ish kg. Do you need to have full fuel tanks all the time? There are very few places in Australia where you will need much more than about 100 l of fuel before you can top up, especially when towing. Do you need full water tanks in the caravan? The point is that there are ways around the problem without changing what seems to be a well set up car [cheaper too]. A 17" wheel and tyre is about 34 kg and as poster above suggests 18" will be about the same. Changing seats etc may run you into problems with ADRs. Check out that payload figure . I think it is 670Kg for a VX and a bit more for the other models.

[My-VX-is-a-Porker Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close My-VX-is-a-Porker]

I think the biggest saving is the bull bar and the second battery.
The rest are so small I wouldn’t worry about it.
I think you’ll find that a 17 inch rim and tyre will weight pretty much the same as a 18inch rim and tyre as the extra rubber will cancel out the aluminium of the rim.
I don’t have a second battery as I have lithiums in the van and so have no use for it.
I have a winch, cage rack, muddies and a few other goodies which add a lot of weight as well. With most 4wds, you can either heavily modify or tow. If you want to do both, you’ll need a gvm upgrade.

Thanks Daniel, those seem like words of wisdom. It's temping just to go back to a stock bumper and ditch the bar altogether. Between that and the fridge/battery I'd lose about 120kgs. I would have to change the front springs to compensate for the weight change though, but I suppose that's easy enough to do. But I guess this seems like a great idea until I meet a Kangaroo at the wrong moment.

Thanks for the reply though, cheers.

[My-VX-is-a-Porker Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close My-VX-is-a-Porker]

Do you need the 3rd row of seats when you are towing? Save 70kg. Do you need the 2nd row for passengers? Save another 70 ish kg. Do you need to have full fuel tanks all the time? There are very few places in Australia where you will need much more than about 100 l of fuel before you can top up, especially when towing. Do you need full water tanks in the caravan? The point is that there are ways around the problem without changing what seems to be a well set up car [cheaper too]. A 17" wheel and tyre is about 34 kg and as poster above suggests 18" will be about the same. Changing seats etc may run you into problems with ADRs. Check out that payload figure . I think it is 670Kg for a VX and a bit more for the other models.

I just double checked and you're right -- GVM is 2990kg, I was looking at the GVM for the petrol model, which is lower... so that really improves my situation! I literally just went out to the driveway with a torch to confirm it, so thank you so much for that. An extra 90kg! Amazing!

And yes running half fuel is part of the plan -- I have two jerries on the trailer anyway. Third row seats are long gone -- I've got some Ecolite drawers in there that only add about 15kg.

But knowing the GVM is 90kgs higher than I thought it was... well... this will be easy. Replace rusty bar with alloy bar, ditch the battery and the fridge, be sensible with fuel and I'll absolutely be under.

Thank you so much for prompting me to double check that. The payload isn't really 670kg over kerb weight, but yes, it's definitely higher than I thought because I was using bad info.

I feel like a bit of a moron but I'm also so pleased I posted here. Thanks so much for prompting me to check!

[Daniel150 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Daniel150]

Glad you had some good news.
I’d pretty confidently say 80% of people towing with modded 4wds are over their gvm.
If you are sensible with just a steel bar and not much else I feel you’ll sneak under.
I would recommend loading up as usual for a trip and going over the nearest weighbridge on your way out of town. This’ll give you a completely accurate weight to work with. Manufacturers kerb weights etc are never the most accurate.
One way of getting a gvm upgrade is to simply have your existing springs certified by a second stage engineer to the maximum axle weight which is 3250kg. Easy to do and will cost about $1500, you just need to find the engineer.
This way you can keep your suspension and mods and get a bigger payload.

[ptommo59 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ptommo59]

Did you check individual axle weights when on the weighbridge?

I ended up getting the Lovells upgrade on my 21 VX not necessarily due to over GVM as I was close but under if I limited what I packed in the vehicle. But rather because I was over the max 1800 kg on the rear axle when towing our 2500 kg caravan with 235 kg ball weight and our standard travel items in the rear

That is the problem with the 3250 kg axle rating reclassification as it means you need to max out the front axle as well to achieve GVM, great when packing a standalone vehicle as you can redistribute the load a bit. But hard when putting heavy weights on the tow bar even if you use weight distribution bars.

The Lovells upgrade gave me 2000 kg max on the rear axle so I now have a bit of buffer and don't expect to go anywhere near the 3500 kg GVM figure.

Ref you installers comment: Unless you're carrying a heavy static load in the back, the rear of the car will be pointing at the moon during regular driving, and the ride is harsh"
Coming from a 2012 hilux SR5 I don't think the Lovells GVM kit is that bad on ride comfort and I use it as a daily driver without heavy load in back and it sits nicely. One thing I did though was make sure I had all my accessories fitted before install so the front spring spacers could be setup to match.

[Daniel150 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Daniel150]

No , I haven’t had the axle weights done individually.
I’m happy enough with being GVM compliant, though I agree with your comment regarding weight distribution.
I originally had a pedders kit fitted with the 3500kg gvm including the axle increase, but due to the shockers being standard length and so topping out non stop, I got it removed and refunded. Next best was a re engineered kit at 3250kg.
I would probably go Lovells from new if I had my time again. I hear people complain about ride quality, but I feel most lift kits give a harsher ride from factory anyway. Harshness is user dependant as well. I feel 4 psi in the tyres makes a bigger difference.
A mate has the gvm increase from lovells on his 200 with no dramas.