90 or 120 Grande

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The 120 has side and curtain airbags and centre lap-sash belts for rows 2 and 3.

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Is that stronger in sense of; GVM vs driveline strength?

The driveline consisting of: Auto box, Transfer-case, Diffs, axles/CVs The auto box in the 90 series is straight out of the 80/100 series Landcruiser, the T/Case is a stand alone item for the Prado 90. Later model 90's had the added option of traction control

The auto boxes are same in the year models mentioned (correct me if I'm wrong)
Ditto for the T-case The auto box - T/Case are the same throughout the 90 series life, only differences were with the gearing dependant on model spec.

The rear diffs are the same but the front diff is strengthened in the 120 (8" diff in 120 vs 7.5" in 90)
Rear axle are same me thinks and not sure about CVs but I thought a read somewhere that 120 CVs where strengthened over the 90 CVs It is not about the size of the diff, it is the thickness of the gear teeth/crown wheel, the 120's CV's are larger, the 120 does snap rear pinions, the 90 doesn't

So I'm figuring for the amount of torque required before failure the 120 has the stronger driveline with the bigger front diff. Is you're statement basically that the extra weight of the 120 undermines any increase in driveline strength?
The 90 series Grande has dual airbags std. side AB's did not come in till the 120. The 90 is slightly better off road than the 120 due to the better clearances and flex.

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[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Point taken re: the gear teeth size but there are 90s that have stripped crown wheels too.

This guy cooked a rear diff
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...!&daysprune=-1

Snaga did too
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...X-Grande/page2

glen_ep cooked his front diff center!
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...roken-in/page2

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Very unfortunate for these guys, what the cause of failure was could be anyones guess, but that is only a very low minority compaired to the 120.

[Chris220220 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris220220]

Wow love all the replies.
Greatly appreciated.
I'm starting to lean towards the '02.
Gives me money left for a bull bar and real tyres.
All depend on the test drive and inspection reports and of cause the haggling and change over price.
Looking at it I'm not sure we xan stretch it it afford the 04 Grande. Will give it a drive anyway just for comparison.

The boss at work has owned both 90 and 120's petrol (but manuals).
He has all the fuel details for each and it looks like the 120 was about 0.5 to 1.0 lt/100km better He did a reasonable amount of towing with a pop top.
The few 20lt/100k trips were not nice to see. (Head winds going up the centre)

I may try also look at a few GXL 120's as they fall in the top end of the budget(~$30k max)

Will keep you posted and post the results if we settle on one this weekend.

Chris

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Will keep you posted and post the results if we settle on one this weekend.

Chris

Good luck hunting, you shouldn't have any problems with any of them.

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

Point taken re: the gear teeth size but there are 90s that have stripped crown wheels too.

This guy cooked a rear diff
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...!&daysprune=-1

Snaga did too
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...X-Grande/page2

glen_ep cooked his front diff center!
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...roken-in/page2

What's with all this pro-120's talk williade? You want to upgrade or something? I think my diff would be an isolated case - not many Prado owners are silly enough to keep up with a dual locked 6" Patrol with 35's.

Whilst I do like the 120 for it's looks and wider track width, if I had to choose between the Prado's again I'd still end up with the 90. Better clearance for 4x4ing, enough aftermark parts (no rear bar though ), and for touring I cannot fault them at all. Too many corregations might upset the dash, but I'd rather that, than a cracking body. The only situation I'd definitely pick a 120/150 for, is if you expect to do a lot of off-camber driving.

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Like I said Glen, that is only 3 cases, compare that to the 120, and you will soon see what the stronger driveline is.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Let's get back on topic. These are the two specific questions Chris wanted answered:

Is the extra $10k worth it?
Yes, particularly if the 2004 model is a 5 speed auto.
Is the 4lt better for towing and economy?
Yes and yes.

To answer the first question "Is the extra $10k worth it?", let's first look at some valuations:

Valuation Results:
4X4 4sp Automatic Unleaded Multi-point injected 6cyl 3.4 3378cc
Average Private Price $18,400-$21,400
Trade In Price Guide $14,400-$17,400
Average km 140000-230000
Price When New (RRP) $65,094

Valuation Results:
4X4 4sp Automatic Unleaded Multi-point injected 6cyl 4.0 3995cc
Average Private Price $31,100-$34,900
Trade In Price Guide $25,800-$29,600
Average km 110000-180000
Price When New (RRP) $72,350

4X4 5sp Automatic Unleaded Multi-point injected 6cyl 4.0 3995cc
Average Private Price $36,700-$41,000
Trade In Price Guide $30,800-$35,100
Average km 110000-180000
Price When New (RRP) $73,510

So if the condition for age of the vehicles are comparable, then $10,000 extra for the 120 series is worth it. If the 120 series in question is a post September 04 model and has a 5 speed auto, then it is most definitely worth the extra $10,000.

To answer the second question "Is the 4lt better for towing and economy?", let's check the specifications.

2002 Toyota Landcruiser Prado Grande VZJ95R Specifications:
http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?R=101140

2004 Toyota Landcruiser Prado Grande GRJ120R 4 speed auto specifications:
http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?R=101465

2004 Toyota Landcruiser Prado Grande GRJ120R (Sep) 5 speed auto specifications:
http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?R=101638

The 120 series weighs 2197kg, produces 179kW power and 376Nm torque for a power/weight ratio of 12.3kg/kW and a torque/weight ratio of 5.8kg/Nm.

The 90 series weighs 2038kg, produces 132kW power and 303Nm torque for a power/weight ratio of 15.4kg/kW and a torque/weight ratio 6.7kg/Nm.

So for towing, the 120 series would be a better option as far as excess power and torque available is concerned. Combine this with the rear self-levelling air suspension and the 120 series is even better because the rear will not sag under a towing load.

Unfortunately the fuel consumption figures for the 90 series is given as 15l/100km urban and cannot be directly compared to the 120 series figures, which are combined fuel economy figures of 13.8l/100km for the 4 speed auto and 13.2l/100km for the 5 speed auto. However, from personal experience and reports, the the 4 litre 5 speed auto has slightly better fuel economy than the 4 litre 4 speed auto, which has slightly better fuel economy than the 3.4 litre 4 speed auto.

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

What's with all this pro-120's talk williade? You want to upgrade or something? I think my diff would be an isolated case - not many Prado owners are silly enough to keep up with a dual locked 6" Patrol with 35's.

Whilst I do like the 120 for it's looks and wider track width, if I had to choose between the Prado's again I'd still end up with the 90. Better clearance for 4x4ing, enough aftermark parts (no rear bar though ), and for touring I cannot fault them at all. Too many corregations might upset the dash, but I'd rather that, than a cracking body. The only situation I'd definitely pick a 120/150 for, is if you expect to do a lot of off-camber driving.

Nonsense. Besides, a 120 is not an upgrade. I may be alone on this one but I think the front end of the 120 is unguly buguly. Objectively speaking the 150 has a much prettier front end but many 120 owners real back in horror at the sight of it because they have had their view of the world warped by the 120's ugliness. But who cares about 120s/150s, I like the conservative styling of the 90, practical but not too practical (GQ patrol).

[Chris220220 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris220220]

Evening all,

well after a really full day out the jobs done.
Stared with the 90 in Tullamarine. It was clean staight and only few light scratches.
Seats and interier in good nick as well.
We took it out for a drive and it drove a lot like our tired old Falcon
Maybe not quite as soft as it has become.
There was signs of an oil leak but could not see just where.

From there we headed to see the Grande(Brighton) after several calls from the dealer, we had told him sorry too dear.
They dropped the price by nearly $4k to get us in.
I think my jaw nearly hit the floor when I saw it. Oh boy, (we have let you see it pre touching up, he said)
It was not well looked after scratches, dints and the inside plastic in the boot badly scrathed.
The under side had had black paint spayed every where by the dealer. What were they hiding ?
You wanted $36k9 for this was my thought. The one the got me was the back door had sagged and was hitting the body work if not lifted about 1-2cm when closing.
The roof was badly scrathed and dinted where the tailgate met along with the varying panel fit on the bumper had me worried.
"We can fix all this" he kept telling us. Maybe the motor is ok and well looked after I thought, test drive.
Handled better than the 90 and was about as towey as the falcon on gas.
$31612 was the price the offered with 160 service and warranty.
My wife and I decided to look at another I had called about and said we would go for lunch and talk it over.
The more we thought the less we liked it.

Off to Hallam.
This time a Dec '04 Pearl white VX with 132k on the clock and just serviced.
It had just had a new windscreen put in and the headlight seal replaced as we got there.
The dealer appologied for the state it was in but said this is as we got it.
If only he had seen the last one.
Wow chalk and cheese. Straight body with I think 3 or 4 scratches they were going to touch up.

Cloth interior was in good shape and was going to be steam cleaned.
Looked really good besides one small burn hole in the back seat which was to be fixed as well.

Time for a test drive.
Went out onto the high way and was blown away by the pick up this one had.
Wow, I think the Grande had been well and truelly thrashed and walking away was definitely the right move.
This engine was nothing like the other, responsive grunty and cruised lovely on the freeway.
To be honest I don't remember if the 5 or 4 speed auto now.

Well my wife was sold on the 120.
A little haggling and a deal was done, probably paid more than going private.
But we were both happy and it was around what we were prepared to pay for the Grande.
We bought it and collect it next Friday. Wahooo

Yes if it was to be purely an off road machine I would have gone with the 90.
I see what you all mean about the 90's.
But it will do a lot of town tripping and kid ferrying as my wifes daily drive new car.
So the onroad side had to be taken into account.

Thanks again for the tips and pointers.
All very, very usefull info.
I felt I had some idea when I looked at each.

BTW this one has towbar, Toyota safari bullbar, driving lights, electric brake controller and all terain tryes.
Saves me a little build up.

Hope to give it a run next Sunday and take some pics :-)

A very gratefull
Chris.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Well done Chris, a fine choice. You'll find that if it is a Dec '04 model, it will be a 5 speed auto. Congratulations!

[grande1810 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close grande1810]

My choice was the 4ltr 120 over a 90 series when I bought mine, I believe the 4ltr to be a better , more reliable power plant than the 3.4ltr in 90 series,.The ride is better in 120 over 90,
Hope you get a good one, whichever you choose
Good luck mate
Jeff

[Chris220220 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris220220]

Decided to pay for a State Road inspection on Monday. I now look back and realise there was a lot we didn't look at on the car and I am no mechanic.
We get a 3day cooling off, so if it comes back with a shocking report I'm ok. Not that I think it will. All seemed above board.
Cannot wait for next Friday now. We have pointed out every Prado to the kids so they can see what it's going to be like. Never realised just home many are family taxis in the outer north eastern suburbs :-) All that great out door ability going to waste! Guess it leaves the bush tracks free for the rest of us.

[Chris220220 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris220220]

Reading back I must sound like a bit of a nong. I signed for a car I had not given a good going over.
After the other two we had looked at on the day and about 100km of driving we were both a little frazzled and stuned by how good this car looked.

Well the report is in and our gut feeling was right. The car got a great bill of health. Mechanically very good as is the body and inside.(especially for its age)
The only marks and scratches were one I had seen and are being touched up in the detailing.

So it looks like we have lucked out on this one.
The Dealer still think it is a 2004 4 speed auto.
I called Toyota with the VIN and after checking two seperate systems confirm what other have said here on the forum.
Being a Nov 2004 build it is a 5 speed :-)
Just suggested I take it to a dealer to check the bullbar mounts were replaced as per the recall.

All going well with the finances we pick it up Friday :-)
I'm now very pleased and more relaxed it has been given a clean bill of health.
Day trip to try it out Friday.