What's happened to Toyota these days..... How to they carry out their vehicle testing

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Guys.....

Got me wondering today when I was speaking with a Mechanic fella I know..... He was saying that when was younger he grew up in New Guinea and that his Dad was a MEchanic up their (& still is) and that this is where Toyota "used" to do the majority of their 4wd testing (for years sometimes) b4 releasing new models out on the market. He went on to say that conditions up there are one of the harshest in the world and Toyota wasn't the only manufacturer that tested their cars up there (Nissan too apparently). He went on to say that is why Toyota's of old was renowned for their tuffness but they stopped their testing up in New Guinea quite sometime ago and now he reckons we are seeing the "side effects" of it with all the issues that are popping their heads up (mechanical & Body issues)....

My question is.... has anybody else heard of this and would/could it be true? If it was, then it would answer a few questions I have about Toyota's lack of strength these days with thier 4wds....

rob

[outback7 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close outback7]

Guys.....

Got me wondering today when I was speaking with a Mechanic fella I know..... He was saying that when was younger he grew up in New Guinea and that his Dad was a MEchanic up their (& still is) and that this is where Toyota "used" to do the majority of their 4wd testing (for years sometimes) b4 releasing new models out on the market. He went on to say that conditions up there are one of the harshest in the world and Toyota wasn't the only manufacturer that tested their cars up there (Nissan too apparently). He went on to say that is why Toyota's of old was renowned for their tuffness but they stopped their testing up in New Guinea quite sometime ago and now he reckons we are seeing the "side effects" of it with all the issues that are popping their heads up (mechanical & Body issues)....

My question is.... has anybody else heard of this and would/could it be true? If it was, then it would answer a few questions I have about Toyota's lack of strength these days with thier 4wds....

rob

Hey Rob.....this is my take on Toyota. I think the old fashion service has gone down the toilet as a whole, but there are some dealers that are good dealers that will stand by their customers. As far as the toughness of Toyota 4WD's, I think trying to balance being tough and being comfortable is a bit of a mine field. I do agree that there has been some compromise, but I think there has had to be if you don't want every bone in your body broken.....lol. Bottom line, I still think Toyota build a very tough truck and their resale is second to none......IMO, the build quality in my 150 is pretty good......no complaints. Now, when I get home from America I will be checking for cracks.......Fingers crossed.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

To save money in early '09 Toyota moved their sub assembly sourcing from Japan to China. This in turn has reduced their reliabilty across the entire brand. They needed to make cars cheaper to keep up with the Koreans hence why they source from 2nd tier manufacturers now.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Rob, you seem to be laying the blame for your problems 100% at the feet of Toyota, despite there being plenty of other companies or individuals that may have contributed to your issues. I undertand you are disappointed with your problems but I think you need to point the finger a lot more places than just Toyota.

As for old Toyotas being tough as nails, I think you find they all have had issues over the years, some less than others.

You decided to buy a Prado, why? If tough is what you want then why go for a IFS medium sized 4wd for touring with a larger family and not a troopie? I suspect because like most Prado owners; its capabilities in the city are as important or more important then its outback abilities! Which might explain a few things.

Reading your trip report shows that you were concerned about how loaded your vehicle was before you left home, do you know how loaded (over loaded) you were for that trip?

Cheers Andrew

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Hey Andrew....I take your point..... but I didn't or wasn't really or wanting to refer to my own situation even though it may seem as though I was. I guess I was more referring in general to what's happen to Toyota and the way they currently test their new vehicles compared what they use to do....

Re: Blaming Toyota 100%.... I guess I wasn't really thinking of it in that way but having done nothing different from all the other previous Toyota 4WD's that I've owned over the past 28yrs and having travelled over the same sort of conditions in all my previous 4wds w/o experiencing any of these sort of issues, then I guess I just "assumed" that yes, these Prado's would be able to handle it, especially when u see them being advertised being able to handle the Australian Outback conditions, etc
If Toyota were to advise you prior to your purchase of a new 4WD that not to fit aftermarket (ie Non-Genuine) accessories to their cars due to possible issues down the track and that if u do so, then u do so at your own risk, then I guess fair enough (I'm not actually sure on what their policy is with regards to aftermarket accessories).
(If I had the opportunity to read about this cracking issue prior to me buying ours..... would I have still gone through with it.... I don't really know)

Re:Reason for choosing the Prado.
I had heard of many good reports of the prados not only offroad, but also onroad and thought it would meet our family needs at this point in time while the kids are young. It was to be the missus daily driver so i guess it also had to be comfortable to drive/ride in.

Re: "As for old Toyotas being tough as nails"
Well I can only go on my own experience here as there was no forums / internet around in those days for all to get on to and make known their car issues....

Re: Load concerns on recent trip
Yes I was concerned, but probably more to the point of stability (ie height of roofrack, etc - nothing heavy up top though), but after going for a bit of a test drive prior to leaving my concerns we lightened as the vehicle stability and handling was brilliant. As far as being "overloaded" I don't believe that was the case looking at how the car sat & handled but I must admit, I didn't take it over a weighbridge to check the weight out b4 leaving.....maybe I should have ??



As I said in the start, I wasn't really meaning or referring to my situation (sorry, maybe I should have been a bit more clearer in my 1st post). I was mainly curious about how and where Toyota now does the testing of new vehicles b4 they release them on the market. As previously mentioned I had been talking to a Mechanic that had grown up in New Guinea where back then he said Toyota (& Nissan he said) use to test their vehicles out because up there they had all the req'd extreme conditions for testing vehicles....Altitude; Wet conditions; rough roads; Heat; Cold, etc, etc. He went on to say that they no longer do that anymore & I was just curious to where they do it now & thought others might know.....

Andrew, thanks for your view point though....I hadn't really looked at it from that way....
cheers....
rob

Rob, you seem to be laying the blame for your problems 100% at the feet of Toyota, despite there being plenty of other companies or individuals that may have contributed to your issues. I undertand you are disappointed with your problems but I think you need to point the finger a lot more places than just Toyota.

As for old Toyotas being tough as nails, I think you find they all have had issues over the years, some less than others.

You decided to buy a Prado, why? If tough is what you want then why go for a IFS medium sized 4wd for touring with a larger family and not a troopie? I suspect because like most Prado owners; its capabilities in the city are as important or more important then its outback abilities! Which might explain a few things.

Reading your trip report shows that you were concerned about how loaded your vehicle was before you left home, do you know how loaded (over loaded) you were for that trip?

Cheers Andrew

[Spurio Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spurio]

Many manufacturer's still field test prototype vehicles, but this is done away from the public eyes.

Australia has numerous locations for many of these field tests.

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Many manufacturer's still field test prototype vehicles, but this is done away from the public eyes.

Australia has numerous locations for many of these field tests.

Do u know whether its a time based or km's based sort of thing or both..... What I mean is.... the partner of the lady who cuts our family's hair was some years ago contracted (ie Paid) by a Car Manufacturer to Test this new model Car. He had to put a certain amount of k's on this car within a certain time frame. I assume testing of 4wd's would be a little bit different though...



For a bit of humor.... here's one way to test your 4wd out (obviously there's not much else to do over there):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-Uoi08GLis8

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

IMO, I think they are still very tough and well built, to a compromise for on/off road of corse.

It seems once we start modifying, loading (h/d suspension, heavy steel bars, etc) really testing them out, this is when some issues arise.
I'd say they are not extensively tested, not with all the mods that they are not designed for really.
We mod them, we test them, we find the problems, but we are not TOYOTA.
As we know Toyota Australia has very poor customer service, this doesn't help.
I wonder If Japan knows how bad it is here?
What happened to toyotas" customer satasfaction always comes first"?
Or is that only in Japan :-)

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Good Point.... Maybe its just a change in our mindset..... Where for years and years we've been able to basically fit out our 4WD's with any accessory we wanted to w/o experiencing any major issues......This appears to be no longer to the case and we have to rethink what we "actually" need instead of what we use to do in the past. I still think a bulbar is one of those things that we need here in Australia if you're planning any outback touring.....Not sure how long we will be able to do this though into the future with the ever increasing change in vehicular designs....

IMO, I think they are still very tough and well built, to a compromise for on/off road of corse.

It seems once we start modifying, loading (h/d suspension, heavy steel bars, etc) really testing them out, this is when some issues arise.
I'd say they are not extensively tested, not with all the mods that they are not designed for really.
We mod them, we test them, we find the problems, but we are not TOYOTA.
As we know Toyota Australia has very poor customer service, this doesn't help.
I wonder If Japan knows how bad it is here?
What happened to toyotas" customer satasfaction always comes first"?
Or is that only in Japan

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

To save money in early '09 Toyota moved their sub assembly sourcing from Japan to China. This in turn has reduced their reliabilty across the entire brand. They needed to make cars cheaper to keep up with the Koreans hence why they source from 2nd tier manufacturers now.

But their cars are not cheaper than the Korean equivalent. Across the board Toyotas are dearer: Corolla, Camry, Hilux, Prado and Landcruiser are way more expensive when compared to your Hyundais and Ssanyongs. Only the big F250 and Chevvies/Dodges exceed the cost of the Tojo product. Most of us paid big dollars for our cars based on (1) realiability (hah!), (2) comfort, (3) ability and functionality, (4) resale value. That's my preference. And they are letting down a lot of those devoted customers. Some will switch brands and some will hang onto the more reliable early models thus causing Toyota to sell less cars.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

But their cars are not cheaper than the Korean equivalent.

Maybe not but they're cheaper to build hence more profit for Toyota...

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Good Point.... Maybe its just a change in our mindset..... Where for years and years we've been able to basically fit out our 4WD's with any accessory we wanted to w/o experiencing any major issues......This appears to be no longer to the case and we have to rethink what we "actually" need instead of what we use to do in the past. I still think a bulbar is one of those things that we need here in Australia if you're planning any outback touring.....Not sure how long we will be able to do this though into the future with the ever increasing change in vehicular designs....

Is the problem (if there is one) with Toyota or the suppliers of the aftermarket products?

Cheers Andrew

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

IMO definitely both. It's often the combination.
Take away the mods and you are left with different problems.

Eg, standard suspension: big corrugated trip and you may brake the 2 pissy little welds on the bottom of the Pins on the front strut.
Modified suspension: struts welded all the way round (good), but now heavy duty springs (no point talking about all the possible problems from those) the struts extra travel increases c/v angles making it easier to damage, that alone offset the fix of the better welds and thicker pins. But it's more capable? While it's not broken anyway.
Etc etc hahaha...... :-)

[fridayman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close fridayman]

10-15 years ago Toyota made almost all their parts in house at Toyota City in Japan. Everyone at Toyota City were treated as part of (the Japanese equivalent of) a large family, and everyone strived to adhere to "The Toyota Way" (a set of principles to continuously improve in all areas, while also respecting people). In recent years, however, Toyota have had to outsource more and more component manufacture to remain competitive, as more manufacturers have sprung up and grown successfully into global players. Unfortunately Toyota's "partners" do not all operate The Toyota Way, but are rather more conventional in their pursuit of profits, resulting in questionable quality at times - this lead to the hearings in the US, where the Toyota chief actually made a public apology for allowing this to happen.