FORD Australia shutdown Announcement

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Definitely, you will only have to wait another 680 years.

[Ozpat Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ozpat]

I didn't get the govt I deserve I got some red headed lying c*#€ that nobody actually voted for . But that's another argument .

No but the people who voted for her got voted in by us. We're stuck with the Westminster system like it or not.

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

No but the people who voted for her got voted in by us. We're stuck with the Westminster system like it or not.

True but we also have a lot of power under said system and our own constitution. Theres a reason its not part of our school curriculum.

Mention this and most people glaze over and go back to complaining. Apathy is the reason our system has been corrupted to what it is now.

[Ozpat Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ozpat]

Our system is too slow and cumbersome. We in NSW sat helpless for years while the backroom Labor boys trampled over our rights with Premier after Premier. Same thing now in Canberra.

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

Our system is too slow and cumbersome. We in NSW sat helpless for years while the backroom Labor boys trampled over our rights with Premier after Premier. Same thing now in Canberra.

Our system has been hijacked and corrupted by the people that keep getting elected. We, the people, have the power under this system to do something about that. But "the average, hard working Australian" would rather complain than actually take an active role in the every day governing of their electorate, community, state and country.

[maxjj Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close maxjj]

an interesting read on subsidies for the automotive industry.


"“In the US the cost per person is $250 compared to $17.80 here and in Germany it’s $95. The focus on the amount is a constant negative that has created image problems for the industry here.”


http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257B94000924B7

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Some valid points Jasen except the car manufacturing sector puts into the economy far more than it receives in the way of hand outs. The basic problem is that our manufacturers haven't looked forward far enough. The market has changed faster than the manufacturers. Happy to say though that I have put my money where my mouth is, or some other part of my anatomy, and I have ordered a new Commodore, well an HSV one anyway. Delivery in September. I have had a deposit down for nearly a year on a car that no one was sure would be made, now that it has been revealled there are only two on the roads and very few have driven it. But I cannot wait. 202 killer wasps I hear you ask? No, more than double that!

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

I really feel for the families that have and will loose their jobs as car manufacturing disappears from Australia but it's inevitable.
Like someone else said, the UK car industry died years ago mostly because the cars were crap and too expensive to build.

The Australian car industry would have dies years ago if it wasn't subsidised, Australia just isn't very good at making cars, let's adapt and do something else that we are a bit better at and stop wasting tax payers money on cars that no one wants to buy.

Yes it's a shame but this is a great country, probably the best to live in in the world and we will adapt.

For anyone that moans about the demise of the Australian car industry, I say buy an Australian made car and sell your Prado and for anyone that moans about how this country is going to the dogs, jesus christ seriously go live somewhere else for a while and you will soon realise how good we have it here. The economy here is doing so well while a lot of the world is on its ass.

I love Australia and feel so lucky to be living here.

"...Australia just isn't very good at making cars..."

Are you saying Australians are to stupid to figure out how to make good cars? Remember a few short years ago when the standard comment to anything from Japan was 'Jap crap" and everyone laughed at what this poor country produced? Now what are the majority of people driving? The Japanese simply looked at what was successful and copied it. Then they continued to improve upon it when stuff broke and failed. Etc...

My question is why is Holden making vehicles that no one wants? Why haven't they chased export markets? Their after sales service sucks, to put it mildly. Ask anyone thats tried to make a warranty claim. So we should buys rubbish just to prop up a failing local company with over paid executives that produce a product that no one wants?

The MD makes a statement that the work force should take a pay cut to keep the company going, yet no one asked how much the company executive is going to give up for the same objective. My guess is bugger all. They will probably give themselves bonuses in the millions.

Lucky to live here? Sure. But the long slow demise of all the things that built this nation continues.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Beach none of the management team have had a pay increase in 3+ years and I suggest you google the enterprise agreement to see what the workers are being paid and then rationalise that in your own mind with the skill set they possess. I make no comment nor offer any opinion.

Holden have tried to set up decent export markets and the Commodore is sold in the middle East and also again in the US. A handful of cars elsewhere like unzed and the UK. It is interesting that the Pontiac G8 and GT (VE SSV more or less) were fairly mildly received and when GM shut Pontiacs doors so did the US export opportunity close. I wonder if that is US brand snobbery such as we have here? However the owners of G8s are very vocal and loyal so it makes you wonder what happened there too. It doesn't take much of a market slice to sell a lot of cars. The VF Commodore will be sold in the US as a Chevrolet SS and the spec is a mixture of HSV R8 and SSV Redline. Again it will be interesting to see if the reception is mediocre. Any exports to the UK will be minimal given the price of fuel.

Not to mention the Caprice being sold as a police car. Not sure how many sales but there are likely to be quite a few.

Holden's future beyone 2016 or 2017 seems to lie with the Cruze and the Malibu or similar front drive platform. My son has the last model Cruze and it is ok. Diesel manual but it is not my cup of tea. I had a good look at the Malibu the other day and it leaves me wondering why. It is pretty inside. And it is an attempt to clone the Camry and yet it doesn't do anything as well or better. The engines certainly are wanting and offer neither performance or economy as far as I can see. Maybe Holden hope to use brand loyalty to gain sales in a market of otherwise bland cars. I don't know. Doesn't do much for me.

As for aftersales support my experience with HSV has been a lot better than the equivalent with Toyota. Just one example I know. Previously I had an FPV and the after sales service didn't exist. I was given a car to drive home at night after a service with two blown headlight bulbs. Really? Oh your car is out of warranty and we didn't know if you wanted to fit Ford or aftermarket bulbs. So why not call me so I don't have to drive home like all the other tossers driving about with foglights on!

By the way Beach do you currently have a Holden?

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

Beach none of the management team have had a pay increase in 3+ years and I suggest you google the enterprise agreement to see what the workers are being paid and then rationalise that in your own mind with the skill set they possess. I make no comment nor offer any opinion.

Holden have tried to set up decent export markets and the Commodore is sold in the middle East and also again in the US. A handful of cars elsewhere like unzed and the UK. It is interesting that the Pontiac G8 and GT (VE SSV more or less) were fairly mildly received and when GM shut Pontiacs doors so did the US export opportunity close. I wonder if that is US brand snobbery such as we have here? However the owners of G8s are very vocal and loyal so it makes you wonder what happened there too. It doesn't take much of a market slice to sell a lot of cars. The VF Commodore will be sold in the US as a Chevrolet SS and the spec is a mixture of HSV R8 and SSV Redline. Again it will be interesting to see if the reception is mediocre. Any exports to the UK will be minimal given the price of fuel.

Not to mention the Caprice being sold as a police car. Not sure how many sales but there are likely to be quite a few.

Holden's future beyone 2016 or 2017 seems to lie with the Cruze and the Malibu or similar front drive platform. My son has the last model Cruze and it is ok. Diesel manual but it is not my cup of tea. I had a good look at the Malibu the other day and it leaves me wondering why. It is pretty inside. And it is an attempt to clone the Camry and yet it doesn't do anything as well or better. The engines certainly are wanting and offer neither performance or economy as far as I can see. Maybe Holden hope to use brand loyalty to gain sales in a market of otherwise bland cars. I don't know. Doesn't do much for me.

As for aftersales support my experience with HSV has been a lot better than the equivalent with Toyota. Just one example I know. Previously I had an FPV and the after sales service didn't exist. I was given a car to drive home at night after a service with two blown headlight bulbs. Really? Oh your car is out of warranty and we didn't know if you wanted to fit Ford or aftermarket bulbs. So why not call me so I don't have to drive home like all the other tossers driving about with foglights on!

By the way Beach do you currently have a Holden?

Interesting points.

No I don't own a Holden. I gave up on them years ago. The rest of the world caught up and left them behind. They have been trading on "brand loyalty" from rusted on fans for far to long and now its likely to bring about their demise. Funny how that works. I personally know people with recent model Holdens and they all have stories of appalling after sales treatment, especially when trying to make a warranty claim. (Ford are no better. A colleague had a horrendous and expensive experience with a new XR6. He now drives a Mazda, never to return)

Are you sure the executive has not had pay rises and bonuses in the past three years? Even if they haven't, are they taking a pay cut along the one they are proposing for the work force?

I don't share your view of "brand snobbery". For example, Jeep have picked up some sales with their recent slick campaign, "I bought a Jeep", but the quality of the vehicles hasn't changed. No way would I throw my hard earned at one.

You are correct about it not taking much of a market slice to carve a niche and be profitable, yet Holden seem to struggle. Once again one has to ask why?

"My son has the last model Cruze and it is ok. Diesel manual but it is not my cup of tea." There it is in a nut shell. The cars Holden produce are ok, but theres better to be had. Again, one has to ask what has brought them to this point? Design by committee? Their own snobbery in not building cars that the market wants versus "what has always worked". Such things keep analysts busy for days.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

I am sure about the Executive pay arrangements, did you check out the EA on the FWC website? Interesting reading.

As for the Cruze not being my cup of tea that refers to anything in that segment. #1 wanted the Cruze from the outset and I was loathe to support that given what I had read about the earlier Korean assembled ones so we test drove a swag of equivalent cars, Japanese, Korean, German and of course the local. The Cruze was not the worst nor the best at anything. I would not have personnal bought any of the offerings but that is just me. Obviously there are plenty of people out there who are in that market. Like a mate of mine in Japan who has a Camry hybrid. I was surprised given his previous cars and for him it came down to what was on offer for the yen and he wouldn't have bought a hybrid if there was a choice that suited him better but there wasn't.

Every purchase whether it is a car or hair dryer or toothbrush has the opportunity to disappoint. For example I have never been treated as badly by a manufacturer's representative as the continued spiel I copped from the Toyota "Service Consultant" when my 120 D4D injectors went awol. A week of conversations where the consultant assumed I was some form of ignorant moron who was unable to tie his shoelaces together or wipe his own arse. And I can guarantee I know more about the system and its problems than she did.

Brand snobbery exists even if you haven't come across it. Oh and a Jeep? Forget it, no way I would go there regardless of any advertising campaign.

Anyway I think Jasen has hit the nail on the head with his comment that they didn't fix it because it wasn't broke but it actually was broke just no one wanted to know.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Oh Jasen you neeeeeeed to drive a V8, just for a little while. Sorry mine is allergic to sand. Good points again. You can't keep this up you know.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

We Aussies are proud of our home grown product, despite the American influence. I know the Brits love their little shoe boxes on wheels. I grew up there with uncles and a grandfather who owned everything from Minis to Heinkel bubblecars, Dodge 3 wheelers, Austins, etc. They got around on the smell of an oily rag but were terrible cars. Little cars are fine for the shopping and teenage girls on their P plates and for granny on a pension but they have no soul. The Brits do build some nice cars with V8s including Astons and TVRs. But I love my Ford V8: 347 cubic inches of Windsors finest in my AC Cobra (replica). Even the yanks had to show the Brits how to make a car move properly by shoe horning a Ford V8 into the AC Ace back in the early 60s. A sad time in the Aussie auto industry for sure.

[macaroon1 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close macaroon1]

Not sure 'love' is the exact word, I guess there just being practical! Fuel was 1.45GBP a litre last time I looked (2.40 Au$) and steadily rising and that was some years ago. In most cities you can get round faster on public transport as the roads are gridlocked (a small island with @ 70million people), public transport is not great in Australia....I guess it's just too big. Generally poms are less inclined to brand loyalty ..eg there is no Holden/Ford thing @ races...all the car makers race at touring car championships etc. They lost there car manufacturing so had to adapt at other things (they thought they were good at)? I know London moved heavily into finance and generally they went for I.T too. Maybe OZ can corner the future market in mining vehicles and solar power?? Twenty years ago 4 pots were a bit dodge but now modern engines are fantastic, a good 1.6L will easily get you round the UK, no dramas doing the legal limit...I guess unless your Branson (with your own county!) there is no room for V8's. Holden will potter on with the Cruze's & Barina's etc. The reason the falcon and commodore are dying are because people now want family SUV's....territory's/Prado's...for the option of travelling further afield ( on the beaches/into the bush etc). AFAIK those options are not available in the UK and most of Europe so the Ozzies do have it good.

I'm sure a lot of Europeans would love V8's but just seeing your fuel gauge diminish in a standing queue is not going to appease your bank manager. Just my 2 cents!

BTW I don't think Branson owns a county.....but he does own a few nice islands.....which is nice!