Towing Caravans

[dsweene2 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close dsweene2]

I have a 2004 Toyota Prado Grande and I am considering buying a 21 foot caravan. I have read that I should be careful doing any serious towing be because of the rear air suspension. Firstly what is classed as 'serious towing' and secondly I would like to know if I can safely and comfortably tow a caravan of this size with my vehicle without doing any damage to the vehicle. I would be towing for holidays initially and hopefully eventually maybe travelling around Australia. I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Debbie

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

Hi Debbie,

The simplest answer would be to:
keep the ATM less than 2500kg
keep the ball weight less than 250kg
dont use weight/load distribution hitches.

21 feet is a long van and it might be a case of the 'dog walking the owner' on the road so suggest you do plenty of homework before taking the plunge.

cheers
micheal

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

You'd be looking at a van that weighed 2000 - 2200kg empty. That discounts any off-road tandem axle vans. Filling the two water tanks and 2 gas bottles will add 200kg leaving room for a few cartons of beer and a change of undies for the missus inside the van. You won't be doing much serious towing of a 21 footer unless maybe you go for a semi-off road pop top in order to keep the weight down. I'm looking at a 17 foot full off-road van now that comes in at 2100kg with single axle.

[cardinal28 Member Find all posts View Profile Close cardinal28]

I have just been through all of the above. We had a camper trailer (no problems) and then we sold that and bought a 16' full off road Supreme Getaway pop top tare weight 1775kg. I found by the time you load up the van (water, jerry cans, 2 x gas bottles, food etc) I would assume it weighed approx. 2300/2400kg and then the car (engel, genny etc), the Prado (120 V6 manual) would cruise ok at 100k on flat ground, but hit a hill or try and overtake and that was a different story. Constantly changing gears to keep the revs up and the fuel consumption was nothing flash.
Simple answer, twin turbo diesel 200 series Landcruiser. I now feel sorry for these people towing 21'+ vans with things like Navara's etc because they fell for the sales pitch 'its towing capacity is 3500kg'. They tried the same sales pitch on me at the local Ford dealer with the Ranger. I did not want towing 'capacity', I wanted towing 'power'.
Just be very careful what you buy in vans. Weight is a big thing.

[Mattfunk 120 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mattfunk 120]

My old man bought a custom off road caravan last year and drives a 2004 diesel GXL . The quoted weight was about 1600kg as it was made with an aluminium frame but they added so many extras like a/c, diesel heating , satellite dish & heaps more , so with nothing at all in the van and empty water tanks it was up toward 2200kg. Not much to play with as the towing capacity is 2500kg and for insurance purposes not a good idea to exceed. This was a brand new caravan custom built and then the ball weight was something like 220kg unloaded so as soon as he filled the front water tank on the front side of the single axle it would have been well over the 250kg mark & then be uninsured as it exceeds the ball weight recommended by the manufacturer. These problems you would not expect from custom built van builders fully aware of what sort of vehicle you drive and paying close to six figures for this. They are doing a lap at the moment and with a chip & exhaust He does struggle uphill and if driving into a headwind sits at top speed of about 80km/hr & can't get her into top gear( auto)
Cheers Matt

[Rusty62 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rusty62]

You may need to upgrade the airbags. We have a older 120 TD not common rail in the family towing a 2500 kg Kedron off road van twin axle. Use load distribution devise if you like safety. So far this old car has 330000 km and no reliability issues, presently towing this van around oz. they have been away for 33 weeks.
Not sure why other people would recommend not using the load distribution hitch. These are used to correct the weight removed from the front axle, more than lifting the back up. Try braking in the rain with weight removed from the front tyres.
They do wish for more power from the old oiler but are prepared to wait out windy days, or travel with a tail wind.
Rusty.

[Guest Close Guest]

Good point to consider... do you need to use a WDH with the Grande's self-levelling airbags?

[bdee Member Find all posts View Profile Close bdee]

I can assure you the 150 series has no issue towing a 21ft van provided tare is under 2100kg. We has just complete 3 months covering 15000 KM. I found the Prado more than capable.

Brett

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog...re/1/tpod.html

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

Not sure why other people would recommend not using the load distribution hitch. These are used to correct the weight removed from the front axle, more than lifting the back up. Try braking in the rain with weight removed from the front tyres.

I made the comment about avoiding WDH's from toyota's perspective (and I should have made that clear), The 120 OE towbar prohibits non toyota LDH and I also understand that on the Grande's LDH are also not allowed.

I should point out that in my opion WDH/LDH/Load levelers (or what ever you want to call them) are a good idea to transfer some of the ball weight to the front axle...

[yowie Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close yowie]

To outline what some of you have said, be wary of the weights when loaded.

I was at the Penrith Caravan and Camping show in September, and a few dealers were advertising vans that were Prado compatible, so I looked at the weights (ATM, GTM, tow ball) and it was easy to see that most of these vans (some around the 20/21 foot length) were up near the limit already without anything being added (water, clothing, food, etc), so once loaded up, the van would be over 2,500kg.

It just depends how many extras the van has added, or what you want to take with you.

[zutta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zutta]

I have a 2004 Toyota Prado Grande and I am considering buying a 21 foot caravan. I have read that I should be careful doing any serious towing be because of the rear air suspension. Firstly what is classed as 'serious towing' and secondly I would like to know if I can safely and comfortably tow a caravan of this size with my vehicle without doing any damage to the vehicle. I would be towing for holidays initially and hopefully eventually maybe travelling around Australia. I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Debbie

hey Debbie,

We have been travelling oz for the past 15months with our 04 prado GXL diesel, towing a 21ft '87' jayco full van (Tank) and i can assure you will not have problems pulling a van around the country once you set it up correctly.

Setting up our rig we had to consider the older van with a heavier ball weight plus the rear of the prado being loaded up with all of our gear , there is 4 of us plus 2 dogs so we are packed to the roof with all this in mind i decided to go for Heavy duty springs in the rear plus poly air bags, this was a good choice as without this setup we wouldn't be level.

We also have the Hayman and Reece heavy duty weight distribution Bars and a Hayman & Reece towbar fitted.

Our van is 1800kg empty and we are 2500kg loaded on the road for full time travel. I got everything weighed before our trip and was all good but was a bit over on the ball weight which i have rolled the dice on as we couldn't really fix it because of the design of the van.

Personally i would just be aware of the weights of the van you are looking at buying, Definitely run a weight distribution hitch of some sort and if it doesn't level out correctly i would be looking at HD springs for the rear.

GL with your adventures

[Rusty62 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rusty62]

Toyota did a exchange on the weight distribution hitch a while ago to get a bit more reliability out of the little cast steel hitch on the 120's.
Personally I would only use a Reece hitch ( my opinion ) but with not too much load on the chains. Also we had a second hole drilled in the hitch to make it closer to the car. This is to reduce the mechanical advantage on the hitch. The load bars are closer to the vehicle chassis.
If you are in doubt seek advise from a mechanical engineer, not a general mechanic. A engineer can calculate the load and has the knowledge to offer you the correct advise. ( I do work with consulting engineers).
Rusty.

[Cuvier100 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cuvier100]

I can assure you the 150 series has no issue towing a 21ft van provided tare is under 2100kg. We has just complete 3 months covering 15000 KM. I found the Prado more than capable.

Brett

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog...re/1/tpod.html

Brett, Is your 150 a diesel/petrol/manual/auto and if it's an auto diesel did you only use 4S?

Mike

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

hey Debbie,

We have been travelling oz for the past 15months with our 04 prado GXL diesel, towing a 21ft '87' jayco full van (Tank) and i can assure you will not have problems pulling a van around the country once you set it up correctly.

Setting up our rig we had to consider the older van with a heavier ball weight plus the rear of the prado being loaded up with all of our gear , there is 4 of us plus 2 dogs so we are packed to the roof with all this in mind i decided to go for Heavy duty springs in the rear plus poly air bags, this was a good choice as without this setup we wouldn't be level.

We also have the Hayman and Reece heavy duty weight distribution Bars and a Hayman & Reece towbar fitted.

Our van is 1800kg empty and we are 2500kg loaded on the road for full time travel. I got everything weighed before our trip and was all good but was a bit over on the ball weight which i have rolled the dice on as we couldn't really fix it because of the design of the van.

Personally i would just be aware of the weights of the van you are looking at buying, Definitely run a weight distribution hitch of some sort and if it doesn't level out correctly i would be looking at HD springs for the rear.

GL with your adventures

Hi Zutta,

I think you're overloading the van on those numbers. I'm yet to see any older Jayco with the ability to carry 700kgs - the newest model tandems are around the 400 kilos from memory.

[Green dog Member Find all posts View Profile Close Green dog]

Guys

Load distribution devices simply move the problem. I towed a van with a grande for years and now pull a larger van (2.5t loaded) with my 150 GX.
The solution is setting up your suspension to carry the intended load, and plan/design your van and loading technique to suit the car. Make sure you are aware of how the load is distributed in your van, and also do not forget about the load you are adding to the back of your car ie. tools, luggage etc.
Make sure you have the towball weight in the right range, and the % balance of the van load in front and behind the axles as close as possible to the toyota published recommendations which should be in your glovebox. There is no easy fix you just need to make sure you do it right. Be careful of things like large water tanks as this heavily impacts the load and where it is on your van.