Test drove new Prado, wallowing made me seasick - any fix?

[nmiller Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close nmiller]

What are some potential fixes to make the Prado less wallowing on the road?

I test drove it back to back with the Pajero. It was much smoother - the Pajero cabin vibrates at idle.

However, both my wife and I became motion sick in the Prado after 15 mins. It did feel a bit like sitting in the middle of a rowing boat.

Anybody else experience this and have any ideas for fixes, such as suspension, tires, wheels or other things?

[RBJET Member Find all posts View Profile Close RBJET]

A suspension upgrade will fix it instantly. Either stiffer springs or a full spring and shock package which is what most people go for.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

What are some potential fixes to make the Prado less wallowing on the road?

I test drove it back to back with the Pajero. It was much smoother - the Pajero cabin vibrates at idle.

However, both my wife and I became motion sick in the Prado after 15 mins. It did feel a bit like sitting in the middle of a rowing boat.

Anybody else experience this and have any ideas for fixes, such as suspension, tires, wheels or other things?

Hey,

The horrible motion you are experiencing is vehicle pitch, and is directly related to the poor OEM coil rate ratio in the 150, 780lb/in in front with a 210lb/in rear coil, meaning the suspension frequency ratio is always over 1:1, meaning strong pitch.

The suspension fix is here for the front;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-150-Prado-IFS

The 150 already has a very high rate front OEM coil of 780lb/in.

It actually needs stronger after market valving in the struts and less stiff front coils.

Fix for the rear;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...e-in-the-Prado

You can also take a look at the PP Suspension Database here to see what after market suspension options are out there;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...nsion-Database

You might also like to read this thread about Bilstein valving;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...hs-and-Valving

Hope this helps you out!

Best

Mark

[lordsword Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lordsword]

Any new 4WD I grab from now on will have AT tyres put on before delivery, and will drive it straight to ARB for an OME suspension upgrade.
Easily the first 2 things you should do with your new Prado. Instantly steadies it up.

[OzDriver Member Find all posts View Profile Close OzDriver]

I agree with the pitching problem and am planning on an upgrade next year. From advice at PradoPoint and other sources I am leaning on going for a King/Bilstein combo.
I don't need to go heavy duty (only light off-road planned, no bullbar and moderate loads) and Bilstein have advised Fronts BE5-A712 and Rears 24-238830 (which seems to line up with advice on PP)
King have advised KTFR-101T at front and KTPR-102T for rear (although other rear versions seem to have been mentioned on PP such as the KTPR-102).
Happy to be corrected by those with more expertise on this popular topic.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey OzDriver,

While the 712 open length is reasonable at 560mm open, the low rebound valving of the 712 will struggle with the stiffer 730lb/in part of the King front tapered coil. Read this thread;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-150-Prado-IFS

Particularly the paragraph;

"A common complaint about driving the 150 Prado with OEM suspension is “boaty” or “floaty” handling. This suggests there is not enough valving force in the OEM struts to control the very high OEM 780lb/in coils".

I think in a light duty 150 with no bullbar, once the 730lb/in part of the tapered front coil is active, you will get the same problem as OEM coils, pitch all over again. Look at the OEM valving curve compared to the 712 curve, they are almost identical.

The KTFR-101T is also a very tall coil at 405mm free height, and combined with a 560mm open length may not give you as much droop as you like on the IFS.

The rear 24-238830 is a very short open length at 587mm, and you will definitely have limited droop when you lift on a tall 435mm free height KTPR-102T. The rebound valving of the 24-238830 will not be enough for the stiff 270lb/in part of the KTPR-102.

Keep in mind that the soft parts of the tapered coils are really only active for around the first inch or so of coil travel. Once you hit the rough stuff the stiff parts of the coils will be active. A 730/270 coil rate ratio will give you pitch.

In my opinion this is a very mismatched setup both valving and coil rate wise, no matter what your Prado weighs.

If you prefer to have softer valving, particularly for a light duty vehicle, some will set the 150 IFS up with 120 spec valving and coil rates (712 matched with around a linear 600lb/in coil). To get decent handling, you then need to stiffen up the rear with solid-axle spec valving (typically an 80 series shock such as a B46-1478LT with a 250-300lb/in coil).

As you have already experienced the undesirable vehicle pitching motion, I would reassess your suspension needs, particularly from the perspective of matching valving and coil rates and minimising the pitch.

Best

Mark

[OzDriver Member Find all posts View Profile Close OzDriver]

Mark

Thanks for the expert advice - I will have a re-think on this. I certainly still want a decent ride on any unsealed roads (including unseen potholes).

Although getting a well considered dual manufacturer set up (Kings/Bils, Lovells/Koni etc) might be optimal, the reason some of us might go for a single source kit (Dobinsons, OME etc) is that we might 'hope' they are already matched and at least they can be pushed back on if it does not work.

Do you know of fitters in Adelaide that are well informed on these issues?

[OzDriver Member Find all posts View Profile Close OzDriver]

Based on previous threads a 'safe option' for light-medium demands seems to be:

Bilstein PartNo's:
BE5-A713 - FRONT
BE5-A712 - REAR

Kings Raised springs:
KTFR-101 - FRONT
KTRR-102 - REAR

Is there any reason this would not also succeed on a 150 2.8 ?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Based on previous threads a 'safe option' for light-medium demands seems to be:

Bilstein PartNo's:
BE5-A713 - FRONT
BE5-A712 - REAR

Kings Raised springs:
KTFR-101 - FRONT
KTRR-102 - REAR

Is there any reason this would not also succeed on a 150 2.8 ?

Hey,

You've mixed up the front strut and rear shock part numbers. Coils will be ok for a moderate lift, however the rear KTRR-102 coil won't be useful for a shock longer than 600mm and you'll have coil drop outs;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...ado-120-series

The 713 rear is no good in lifted geometry, you'll end up with limited droop;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...for-120-150-FJ

Take a look at the Bilstein database here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...hs-and-Valving

A much better rear shock is the 24-217897 or the B46-1478LT. Both of those shocks are much longer than the 713, and have considerably better valving.

You will need a longer rear coil to run those shocks, such as a C59-327 Dobinsons. The C59-325 might be a better option for you, as it is much softer.

Plenty to think on there!

Best

Mark

[GEEEXL Member Find all posts View Profile Close GEEEXL]

What are some potential fixes to make the Prado less wallowing on the road?

I test drove it back to back with the Pajero. It was much smoother - the Pajero cabin vibrates at idle.

However, both my wife and I became motion sick in the Prado after 15 mins. It did feel a bit like sitting in the middle of a rowing boat.

Anybody else experience this and have any ideas for fixes, such as suspension, tires, wheels or other things?

to the point of seasickness..... sounds like your up to some trolling while in that boat

[nmiller Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close nmiller]

Hey,

The horrible motion you are experiencing is vehicle pitch, and is directly related to the poor OEM coil rate ratio in the 150, 780lb/in in front with a 210lb/in rear coil, meaning the suspension frequency ratio is always over 1:1, meaning strong pitch.

The suspension fix is here for the front;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-150-Prado-IFS

The 150 already has a very high rate front OEM coil of 780lb/in.

It actually needs stronger after market valving in the struts and less stiff front coils.

Fix for the rear;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...e-in-the-Prado

You can also take a look at the PP Suspension Database here to see what after market suspension options are out there;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...nsion-Database

You might also like to read this thread about Bilstein valving;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...hs-and-Valving

Hope this helps you out!

Best

Mark

Mark, thanks for this informative post. If I understand correctly, the fix is basically softer springs and more dampening on the front. Is that right?

Do you have any idea of the likely impact on:

• rollover risk
• lift off oversteer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pswOGMx8Tzo)

compared to the stock setup?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Mark, thanks for this informative post. If I understand correctly, the fix is basically softer springs and more dampening on the front. Is that right?

Do you have any idea of the likely impact on:

• rollover risk
• lift off oversteer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pswOGMx8Tzo)

compared to the stock setup?

Hey,

Yep that's the way to go on the front...but don't neglect the rear either. If one end isn't sorted properly it mucks up both ends and it'll handle like crap.

Rollover risk always goes up when you lift any vehicle. Center gravity goes up, meaning bigger distance to roll center, equals more torque around the roll axis. You can combat it to some degree with stiffer coils/stiffer swaybars etc., but the risk is always there. It's just the facts of life with a lifted 4wd.

I haven't heard of any oversteer issues with the 150, but what I'm seeing in the video is definitely tyre related.

Depending on what tyres you run, you can also go the other way and get a lot of understeer in Prados, slippery conditions etc.

Just keep in mind it's a 4wd, not a race car, drive to conditions, you'll be fine in a lifted Prado!

Best

Mark

[Coolcol Moderated member Find all posts View Profile Close Coolcol]

Hi Mark,
Great information here even if I did get lost in the numbers.
I have the recommended BE5-A712 / BE5 A713 with the KTFR -101T / KTPR-102 in a lightly loaded Prado.
On the road it feels fine. I have measured the droop and yes its woeful at 65 mm front and 75 mm rear.
So given I don't want to change everything again, am I best replacing the shocks with 24-173032 for the front and B46-14785 for the rears to get the dampening and droop.
Thanks for any help
Cheers
Colin

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hi Mark,
Great information here even if I did get lost in the numbers.
I have the recommended BE5-A712 / BE5 A713 with the KTFR -101T / KTPR-102 in a lightly loaded Prado.
On the road it feels fine. I have measured the droop and yes its woeful at 65 mm front and 75 mm rear.
So given I don't want to change everything again, am I best replacing the shocks with 24-173032 for the front and B46-14785 for the rears to get the dampening and droop.
Thanks for any help
Cheers
Colin

Hey Colin,

24-173032-1 (570mm open) for the front, and B46-1478LT for the rear will give you much nicer droop and valving!

Considering that Jim has retired and Quadrant has closed down, it's unlikely you'll be able to find 24-173032-1 anymore.

Give John at Zordos Suspension in Brisbane a call, he might have a pair tucked away still if you're lucky!

Best

Mark

[Kapitan Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kapitan]

VX KDSS will address the ride issue

What are some potential fixes to make the Prado less wallowing on the road?

I test drove it back to back with the Pajero. It was much smoother - the Pajero cabin vibrates at idle.

However, both my wife and I became motion sick in the Prado after 15 mins. It did feel a bit like sitting in the middle of a rowing boat.

Anybody else experience this and have any ideas for fixes, such as suspension, tires, wheels or other things?

I had the same with my kids and wife complaining about the ride of our 150 series GXL, after some time they got used to it.

I fixed it by buying 150 series Prado VX. Brilliant ride, no issues. The only mistake was getting a diesel VX, GXL was petrol and that was so much nicer engine to drive with!! Best combination for me is VX petrol. Performance, handling etc. all boxes ticked for me in VX Petrol ... but not planning another upgrade soon ...